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[00:00:00] Mike: All right, guys, I’m here with Hayden and Nikki Hughes from Journey More, two of my favorite people in the world. I tell you, when you hit it off with somebody, you meet somebody for the first time and you know going to love them, it’s great. So from day one, our first dinner together, our first conversation together, we hit it off. We had great conversation every time we’d get together, and I know you guys are going to love them. So I want to introduce Hayden and Nikki, and you guys tell a little bit about yourselves and how you got into this content creation influencer world.

[00:00:30] Nikki: Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. The feeling is mutual. We just adore any time we get together. Um, but yeah, I’ll have Hayden tell a little bit about us. 

[00:00:41] Hayden: Yeah. So we met in college, got married right after Nikki’s senior year. So I was actually still in college. And even at that time, we had really started to dream together. It was something that my dad told me before we got married. He was like, never stop dreaming. That’s something that your mom and I always do. And so he was like, take that into your marriage, and never stop dreaming about the future and what you want it to look like. 

[00:01:11] And so going into marriage with that mindset, we had some standard jobs. Nikki worked for the state. I was a financial advisor. And after a couple of years of doing that and just seeing some of our friends and other people that we knew with different opportunities that they had taken on social media, we thought, I think we could make something of our own and really build something that’s unique.

[00:01:39] Nikki: And so, um, we started YouTube, and after about a year of shooting some outdoor content, and adventures, and things like that, we bought a cabin in Gatlinburg. And so we were hosts for about six months, and absolutely loved it. But once we had gotten into that and just had seen the realm of hosting and what short-term rentals offer guests, we decided, you know what, let’s make a video of staying at a really unique place.

[00:02:11] And so our first one was in Alabama, and it was a German Unimog, 1966 German Unimog. And so it was this military vehicle that they had created a tiny home in the back of, and it was really like an adult’s playground. It was really neat. It was a movie prop. And so we were like, well, let’s film our stay here, give a tour.

[00:02:33] And when we put that video out, it did way better than anything before. And so we really knew, okay, this is what we need to do. And so as we kept going and reaching out to host and just seeing if they’d be okay with us filming their property and showcasing it to our following on YouTube and Instagram, uh, we really started to grow from there.

[00:02:56] And that’s what built a portfolio to be able to present to host and show, this is what we’ve done for other hosts in the past, and we’d love to do the same for you. And so over time, that turned into hosts giving us a free stay. And we just really began to grow on Instagram and YouTube. And then when we started TikTok, that was really some fast growth there as well. 

[00:03:22] And so with that following and our experience, we started to see how important it was for hosts to have their own following on social media. And so going back to purchasing that cabin in Gatlinburg, we were able to sell it, and that’s what gave us the jumpstart into going full time. And that’s when it really became not just advertising on social media, but also creating content that hosts could use on their own platforms. Because we know that building a following is very important. 

[00:03:58] You can put your property up on Airbnb, or VRBO, or one of those platforms, but really being able to build your own following and advertise out there to so many other people that may not be scrolling on Airbnb, looking for places. And so it really gave us the ability to help hosts to reach the masses. 

[00:04:23] And we’ve done some incredible things for people, just seeing how many bookings we’ve brought to different hosts. And we’ve even actually had multiple videos that have gone so viral that there’s been Airbnb articles and other articles of the most wishlisted places in the US and in different states that have actually been because of our videos. It’s no coincidence when an Airbnb has 1,000 saves. And then after our 5-million-view video, they’ve got 80,000 saves. It’s like you can definitely find the correlation there in the value that we bring.

[00:05:05] Mike: Yeah, that’s where I want to dive in here. And you brought up a lot of good points there. The first one, you’re just starting out, and you’re reaching out to hosts, and that’s one of the biggest things that we get hit up on. I mean, I was talking to hosts this morning, a few hosts and I got hit up three times yesterday by somebody wanting to stay and shoot our property for content in exchange for stay, or they’re wanting to be paid. And the catch is usually they’ve got 143 followers on Instagram. So how do you respond to that? And how do you overcome that obstacle when you’re a growing content creator or a host that’s trying to juggle, who is a good fit for us?

[00:05:49] Nikki: I think it’s good for hosts to be wise in knowing the fact that content creation is becoming a very saturated industry, especially when it’s coming to Airbnbs because people are seeing an opportunity to be able to stay for free and just shoot a few photos for a trade. But there are some hosts that have had negative experiences because they don’t have a great following, or it’s not their full-time job, or their content isn’t the level at which they thought it was going to be.

[00:06:22] And so what hosts can do to help that is basically do their research, look into the people, how many followers they have, hop on the phone with them. That’s what we always do, is we have a phone call basically to back our following and our abilities. We have been training for three years on some of the top line equipment, and we do our best to make beautiful content creation.

[00:06:50] We have the statistics and analytics to back everything as well. So yeah, I think just having host look into that– but we know that it is something that you guys are getting bombarded with, so we try to find hosts in a unique way, reach out to them on Instagram, and just show our interest in a different way if that makes sense. 

[00:07:13] Hayden: Yeah. And then speaking on that to creators is you’ve got to put the time and work into building a following that is going to produce both followers and bookings to the hosts that you’re working with. And that takes time to get there. And so you’ve got to figure out a way to capture that data.

[00:07:40] And so for us, in the beginning, we would have hosts tell us what their average amount of bookings per month was, how many saves on Airbnb they had, and then we just had them watch their analytics on Airbnb when we would release their content. And if somebody had their own website, that was also a great way, is we would have them watch their website analytics and see actually how many people came to their website, how many more saves they got, did they have a spike in bookings during that week that we were posting?

[00:08:17] And then for us as creators, you’ve got to be creative and flexible in how you’re willing to work with a host, especially starting out. And if you really want to go to a place, but the host is not willing to give you a free stay, sometimes it’s worth it to spend the money to stay there. Our first five or six places that we stayed, we paid full price for. And there were a couple of places, even after we had–

[00:08:44] Nikki: We paid full.

[00:08:44] Hayden: Thousands and thousands of followers, we still paid to stay there because we knew that that property was going to do well. And from that, we would gain following, and we would get benefit from it. And so you’ve just got to look at it in different ways as a creator to really figure out, okay, how can I bring value to the host? Yes, I want to negotiate a free stay, or I want to be paid for this work. And it’s like, that’s fine. 

[00:09:16] You can try to do everything that you want to, but you also have to be flexible as to what the host is willing to allow you to do. And that’s just what we had to do in the beginning. And we built to a point now where we can pretty much guarantee a certain amount of use, a bottom line, but then we can also show the great potential to, and then that’s another thing is not just offering advertising, but offering content creation because I think that’s something that hosts are starting to see and understand more, is that it is important to build that following on social media, but most hosts are so busy that they can’t be on the property shooting the videos and photos that they need.

[00:10:00] And so offering different options like that of, hey, I can make you 10 reels for your Instagram, and you can also post these to TikTok, having those options opens the door in the way that you are able to present yourself and probably in the way that you could either get a free stay or actually start getting paid for your work.

[00:10:25] Mike: And I think you mentioned several things there. The one that stood out to me, investing in yourself and in your business, especially in the beginning, you might have to pay to play. But I think that goes both ways. I think that works for the host too. You can’t start an Instagram page, have an influencer come out and share content and expect to grow exponentially without having put in the work. 

[00:10:47] You need to start that page when you start your property. You need to have content on there already. I guess I think of it as somebody comes and stays and then we have this big surge new followers come in, but we have no content there for them to view, and we’re not posting consistently. And guilty of that. I’m horrible at posting consistently. Uh, but am I a builder or am I creating content? So that’s when it works well to stay in my lane and have somebody that’s doing content do the content.

[00:11:19] Nikki: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:20] Mike: The second thing that’s brought up the most is, does anybody have a sample contract I can use to work with a content creator? Somebody approached me, but I want to have a contract in place. And from the host perspective, what I see is, we want a guaranteed number of views and a guaranteed number of bookings, and I used to look at it that way. And now I see it more a long-term play. I mean, we’re getting bookings from content that was created two and three years ago, still, because they say, hey, I saw this here, and that content’s out there forever.

[00:11:57] Instagram, it goes away a lot quicker than TikTok and YouTube. YouTube is there, and people are constantly watching and constantly seeing, so are its long-term play. So I would encourage hosts to understand that going in, that, hey, you might not see 10 bookings or a 100 bookings tomorrow, but you’re going to see them over the next four to five years. So that investment is always working.

[00:12:24] From a host perspective, what would you expect to see in a contract from a creator as, uh, what they should expect? 

[00:12:34] Nikki: It’s a good sign if they have a contract, if the creator brings up a contract. But I would say the biggest thing is deliverables and deadlines. If they’re going to give you a certain amount of photos and content, you want to have a contract to make sure that they deliver, and that they don’t come, shoot, and then you never get it, you never see it aS well as, maybe a timeline, deadlines, all of that. And I know you can speak to that because he’s the one who writes them up and gives them out. 

[00:13:06] Hayden: And it’s hard to guarantee a number of views or bookings and things like that. And so we usually stay away from that just to protect ourselves, but also to protect the relationship between us and the host. Because like you were saying, we’ve had videos that we’ve posted, and a year later, all of a sudden, they take off and get hundreds of thousands of views. And so with that, there is that long-term aspect. 

[00:13:36] And so you don’t want to guarantee too much upfront and then be contractually obligated to that, and then it doesn’t deliver, now you’ve got a bad relationship, but then all of a sudden, three months later, the video goes crazy, and it’s like, everything that you guaranteed, maybe it’s blown out of the water. And so you just have to be careful about what you’re willing to guarantee.

[00:14:03] You can definitely find trends in your analytics. And that’s what we did. Over time, we really started to put together these trends. And typically, every 500,000 views on a video on TikTok, we see five to 10 bookings to the host within that timeframe. And so we can confidently say that that’s probably what you’re going to see from 500,000 views on this video. 

[00:14:34] Now, obviously we can’t guarantee that the video is going to get 500,000 views because algorithms are always changing. And that’s something, as a creator, you have to be on top of, is you have to be consistently researching and diving into what Instagram, what TikTok, what YouTube are doing to really know and understand, okay, this is what I need to be creating and putting out there so that it does well for the host.

[00:15:04] And so our contract, I actually just use a basic built out contract through LawDepot. And so they have them built for every state. So if you’re going to different states, it just gives you that basis, and then you can work in all of the deliverables like Nikki was saying and then any timelines and things like that.

[00:15:27] Nikki: The contract is like deliverables and timeline, and then our meeting or his meeting that he has with the host talks about the social media potential of bookings. And so it’s like they’re separate. 

[00:15:40] Hayden: Yeah. And if you’re a creator that’s just now starting out, you can always try to work in some, hey, if you’ll run a discount code with me, maybe– we’ll just do Journey More, for example, is the discount code. It’s 10% off. Somebody is going to use the discount code if it’s there, and not everybody is going to tell you, hey, I found your place Journey More.

[00:16:04] Mike: No, they’re not. No.

[00:16:06] Hayden: Right. But if you’ve got a discount code, they’ll use the discount code. And so working in different things like that, then you can figure out, okay, now the host will be able to tell if I’m bringing them bookings or not. And then maybe you work out a deal where you get 50 or a $100 per booking, just depending on what the price per night is. 

[00:16:29] Nikki: Yeah.

[00:16:30] Mike: Yeah. We talked about that as an investment. And again, it’s marketing. 

[00:16:35] We never know how it’s going to perform. So there are plenty of examples out there of marketing gone bad, or a video turning out maybe not the way it was expected. So for a host that’s looking for a return on investment– and we talked about this in our first conversation. If I spend $2,000 on creation, I want $20,000 in bookings. Does it do it? It’s hard to track. Like yousaid, it’s hard to track, even with discount code. 

[00:17:05] What I was thinking about the other day, this hit me, is there a way– and maybe this is a new thing. Maybe it’s not. And there are affiliate everywhere. So is there a way of setting up with a content creator to say, okay, we’ll create this affiliate link on our website? You share that link, and then you’re getting so much of that booking off the top every time. Is that a viable option?

[00:17:31] Hayden: I think if you have your own website and you are generating bookings through that website, you can’t do it with Airbnb. Airbnb used to allow it, but they don’t do it anymore. And I don’t think you can do it with VRBO, but if you have your own website, I think there is a way to do. We actually met a host in New York who we’re going to reach out and talk to again because he had mentioned that there is some type of independent tracking link that you can use that will actually show you right down to whether the person booked or not. And so I hadn’t heard of that before.

[00:18:16] I thought an affiliate link would have to be created and registered by the actual website of the host, but he was making it sound like this would be independent. You could set it up yourself. And so we’re looking into that now. Again, going back to if you as a host have a website where you’re generating your own bookings, I do think that there is some way to set that up.

[00:18:43] Now, I’m not an expert in software and things that would be able to create that. So I’m not necessarily the person that could tell you how to do it, but I do think that that technology is out there, and I think it would be very beneficial for all hosts to have something set up like that because that’s going to give you the bargaining power on the other end to say, okay, maybe I don’t want to pay this all out right now, but if you generate enough bookings, maybe you’ll make even more than what you’ve proposed to me.

[00:19:18] Nikki: I think there is that need out there of getting a link that tracks it all the way from the creator to the booking–

[00:19:25] Mike: Yeah. I’d love to see that.

[00:19:27] Nikki: Payment.

[00:19:27] Mike: And I think, just in real estate, there’s so many different ways to do a deal. And what I’m hearing here is there’s no bowl or plate how you have to work with a creator as host. I think y’all are flexible if the host can be flexible, and you can come up with a way to, okay, it’s so much per booking, or it’s so much per video. How you have your package set, it’s amicable. 

[00:19:53] Nikki: Yes. And that’s why I encourage creators, even if it’s a no upfront, you can always come back and say, well, what would you be comfortable with? What works for you? These are all my options. And that’s how we work with hosts as well. If they have a specific need, we are sure to meet that and work with them in whatever way is best for them. We just give them the avenue we generally go with.

[00:20:16] Mike: Okay.

[00:20:16] Hayden: And I think there’s also, just like with celebrities, I guess you could say, there’s the A-list actors, and then B-list and so forth under that. And it’s like there are certain creators that I would say are A-list Airbnb creators. And so it’s like those creators, I would say, you should have them out to your property because they have a large enough following and established base that is going to be valuable longterm, and it’s probably going to be worth. Unless if they’re just astronomically priced, it’s probably going to be worth the investment to have them come out.

[00:21:00] And so that goes all the way back the beginning of the conversation, is just doing your research and knowing who that creator is, and what their following is. Is it a true genuine following? And is it an engaged following? And how many followers do they have? And so there is a difference in an athlete maybe that has a million followers on TikTok or Instagram, and they go to a property, and they stay, and they post something about it. 

[00:21:33] There’s a difference in that and people like us who maybe only have150,000 followers on Instagram, but it’s like our following is very particular in that we brought those followers in as people that are looking to go book unique experiences.

[00:21:53] Mike: That’s what I going to say is you want to make sure that you’re picking out a creator that fits the feel of your property and it’s in line with your brand. Otherwise, you’re wasting your time in there. So yeah, I agree with that.

[00:22:09] Nikki: And we do this as our full time job. And so people who do it as their full-time job and just as a side weekend, once a year type of deal, you can tell the difference usually.

[00:22:20] Mike: Yeah. I sent Hayden a message the other day, and I was watching your videos. Y’all are having a lot of fun. You feel a lot more natural, and things are really coming together, and I mean, I just love what y’all are doing, and y’all are A listers, for sure.

[00:22:33] Nikki: Thank you.

[00:22:35] Mike: We’ve talked the contracts, and we’ve talked about deliverables. What really sets a property apart? When you’re going and viewing these properties, what can our hosts do, our listeners do, to level up their properties and bring their A game?

[00:22:52] Nikki: We’ll probably go from little things that you can do to big things that you can do. And so I’ll start with the little things, is something that you can do to get great reviews and really upgrade your property is make sure that you have all of the little amenities in your rental that people will need, but don’t want to bring.

[00:23:14] And so I know I’ve talked to you about this before, but having salt, pepper, spices, coffee, creamer, and sugar for all of your guests to come and just anything that they could turn and look for and need and be able to find in your home just sets it up for a great experience.

[00:23:33] Mike: Let’s talk about that because salt, pepper and cream and sugar seem so simple, but you go so many places, and it’s not there.

[00:23:41] Nikki: It’s not there. And I think a lot of people find it annoying to provide those things. And we were hosts once, so we understand that it can be a lot to keep up with. It’s another thing that you have to ask your cleaners to make sure it’s stocked, but I think it’s worth the extra money and the extra time because I remember when we got super host status, a big thing that people left reviews on were all of the little stuff.

[00:24:06] And we even provided extra toothbrushes, and toothpaste, and just things that people could forget. And we got reviews about that all of the time. And I think that people underestimate how much that can upgrade an experience for guests. And I do think that bottom line, it is worth it.

[00:24:29] Hayden: And I think that that pairs well with larger experience amenities. And so when I’m thinking about a property that’s going to be above and beyond, the host has probably looked to find the perfect property that provides something that you can’t have at home. So if you’ve got a house, or we’ll just say a tree house, something unique, right when you arrive, just seeing it, it’s not a normal home.

[00:25:03] And so automatically, when you arrive on the property, you just feel like, okay, this is already a totally different experience. And I think that that’s important in really trying to be above and beyond and providing something that, again, you can’t get at home. And maybe if you’re on a river or you’re on property, have kayaks, have a canoe, something like that, where the guests can actually go and do something fun or carve a trail throughout the woods that you have on your property.

[00:25:39] And so it’s having those different things that will set you apart, that people are probably going to your Airbnb wanting to do anyway. If they want to go kayaking and the kayaking place is three hours away, they could camp somewhere, or they could stay in this really cool container home that is actually on the river, and it already has kayaks.

[00:26:06] So it’s like providing an all in one package in that sense, that’s what really sets you apart. And that’s what’s going to make people go– this might be 200, 300 a night, maybe more, but it’s worth every penny because I’m going to go over here and spend $50 a person on kayak rentals, and do this and that here. 

[00:26:30] And so it’s like the more that you can provide as a full experience, the better it will be. And bringing in theming too, theming your Airbnb in a certain way. If you’re in the mountains, having that mountain theme, or maybe you’re just– we’ve been to some, like an ’80s Airbnb. Just having that theme where it brings you into a different world is, I think, also something that can really set you apart, and it just brings people in that you wouldn’t typically get if you didn’t have those things.

[00:27:08] Mike: Mm-hmm. Sure. So you talked about having the things and creating that experience and having that feel the ’80s. Was that the arcade?

[00:27:19] Nikki: Yes.

[00:27:20] Mike: Okay. So for somebody, uh, my age or a little older, that’s bringing back your childhood. 

[00:27:27] Nikki: Yeah.

[00:27:28] Mike: You might not remember what somebody said to you or what they did, but you’re going to remember how they make you feel. It’s a time capsule, and you’re feeling that. You’re experiencing that. And I think we can do that with all of homes, even if your home is not on a river or hanging on the side of a mountain. Adding those arcade games, the hot tubs, the pizza ovens, creating something a little bit more than what that, your neighbor has. 

[00:27:58] Speaking on how you’re made to feel, what are the hosts doing? The hosts that stand out to you, what are they doing to leave you with that good feeling of, hey, I would love to go back here?

[00:28:15] Hayden: I think communication is a big starting point. If the host is communicating well, they’re making sure that we have everything that we need before we even get onto the property. I think that that is huge, is just knowing that they are there. They are ready to answer any question, any need that we have immediately.

[00:28:40] I think that already puts you in that comfortable mode of like, okay, I’m comfortable. I feel good about this. And you just begin to get excited at that point. And then when the host leaves things that are unexpected, that always adds to that feel of gratefulness. It’s like, wow, they didn’t have to do this. They didn’t have to leave the bottle of sparkling grape juice, and–

[00:29:10] Nikki: The chocolates and a handwritten note. Yeah. All of that stuff makes you feel more connected the person, even though you don’t know them at all. And then I also love when the hosts reach out. And for us, we get to know the host a lot of the time because we are working with them. We started a working relationship with them.

[00:29:31] But even if we were outside of what we do, I think I would really enjoy to get to know the host or at least have that opportunity of hey, this is why we made this Airbnb. This is a little bit about us. Let know if you want to know any more. And I would definitely reach out and be like, yes, tell me more because I love this place. So yeah, getting to know the host is really awesome as well.

[00:29:53] Mike: Yeah. I talked to another creator that was talking about handwritten notes and how that makes him feel when he shows up to a property and there’s a handwritten note. Not just a handwritten note that somebody scribbled out that– a well thought out note that was actually handwritten, not printed and copied a 100 times.

[00:30:11] Hayden: Right.

[00:30:11] Nikki: Yes. I’m a note keeper, so I keep them all, hosts. I keep them all.

[00:30:15] Mike: We try to do little things, and when you start adding more and more properties, that becomes harder and harder to keep up with. We do the Christmas ornaments from Thanksgiving through the end of the year that are specific to each property. But aside from that, we’ve got to come up with better ways to make contact our guests. We leave stickers and things like that. But we’re always trying to figure out how to level up. What would be your number one thing for hosts as to how to level up that experience? 

[00:30:47] Nikki: I think a way that you could do that, a recommendation that I have is, I know that some guests do not want to be bothered, and they will not check their phone, and they will not check your message, and that’s totally fine, but we sometimes have had hosts check in with us halfway through the stay or the first night saying, hey, I just want to check in to make sure you got in okay. If you have any questions, let me know. 

[00:31:14] And that’s an opportunity for us to be like, hey, we’re actually going to go eat somewhere. Do you have a top recommendation? And you might have it in your booklet, but we haven’t looked yet. And so that’s an opportunity to talk back and forth and say, go here. Do this. Let me know if you have any other questions. And make that personal connection. 

[00:31:33] I know as hosts, we had people mention they’re communicative. They gave great recommendations, and we really enjoyed our time and they made sure that we had a good time. And so I think hosts maybe checking in is a good way to level up that as well, to make sure that your guests are having a good time and lead them in the right direction because you know your place. You’ve stayed there. You know what’s best in the area and you’re pretty sure they would have a good time at and a great meal at. And so I hope that makes sense.

[00:32:05] Hayden: Yeah. And as a host, and I’m sure that this has been talked about on other podcasts and things, you need to stay at your property because that’s the only way that you’re going to actually know what it’s like and how you can elevate the experience. And don’t just stay there for one night. Probably stay there for two or three nights just to really get a feel for, okay, what am I providing as an experience here? What can I provide?

[00:32:35] And coming back to us as creators and influencers is if you’ve got a social media following, use that and use the content that the creators have made for you as well because sometimes that can give guests an idea of what to do and how to have fun on your property.

[00:32:55] I know for us, when we had our cabin, because we were still content creators at the time, we had a binder that had QR codes that when they scanned them, it would actually bring them to our YouTube channel, and it was one of our videos that was showcasing some of the trails that were in the Smokies, or some of the places that we had eaten at that were our favorites.

[00:33:23] And so that gives them more personal connection between you and the guests, or if you use the content that a creator has made, again, it gives that opportunity for the guests to be inspired of, oh, maybe I should go do this, or maybe I go do that. 

[00:33:44] Mike: It’s a great idea, adding a QR code to your guidebook and your guest book of the videos and the photos that the creators done.

[00:33:52] Hayden: Yeah.

[00:33:53] Mike: That’s a big thing to me. Believe it or not, we both grew up in scouting, so we know how to build a campfire. But we get asked all the time, how do I start a fire? And I’ve started fires for guests, uh, when we happen to be close by or at the property dropping something off. Hey, can you start a fire for me?

[00:34:13] So I think that adding QR codes at the fire pit, here’s how you build a fire, and just have a video walkthrough, or here’s how you use the pizza oven, or the hot tub, whatever it may be. All the amenities especially if they’re not something that you would have at home, do a walkthrough on how to make that work.

[00:34:36] I would think that if you worked with the creator and said, hey, while you’re here, could you do a video tutorial on this and we’ll pay for that too– 

[00:34:45] Nikki: Yeah, because that’s one less thing that you have to do as a busy host that they can do while they’re there.

[00:34:51] Mike: Focus on hosting, and turn content creation to the professionals. Yeah, I love it. I love love it.

[00:34:57] Hayden: Yeah. We should have come up with that before.

[00:35:00] Mike: I know. So I’ll send you a bill. 

[00:35:02] Nikki: Yeah. Add to our contract.

[00:35:05] Mike: There you go. I’ll put it in the contract.

[00:35:06] Hayden: For us, it’s funny, like, I actually made a how to build a fire video. It’s on YouTube. And so it’s like creators are busy too, and we’re trying to get everything done, but it’s like you can reuse that for other people. And so I could be like, hey, Mike, here’s my YouTube video. Here’s the QR code. Stick it on there, and–

[00:35:29] Mike: Bonus content. Yeah.

[00:35:30] Hayden: Exactly. So you can repurpose. 

[00:35:34] Nikki: Yeah. And then eventually you can make the fire at the Airbnb, so then it has that feel across– everything’s consistent.

[00:35:42] Mike: It’s on brand and consistent. 

[00:35:44] Nikki: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:35:45] Hayden: Exactly.

[00:35:46] Mike: So what other types of creators would you tell the listeners to look for? I know there’s so many different, uh, creative methods out there and so many different platforms.

[00:35:59] What other mediums would you say to go after for exposure for short-term rental?

[00:36:08] Hayden: Good question. I think I’ll speak a little more specific to the types of creators first, is anybody that does any travel content, people are usually watching them to get ideas of where to go and what to do. And so even though we’re specific to Airbnbs, there’s a lot of other creators out there that are world travelers, or they travel to us, or maybe there are [Inaudible]. People like that are going to have an audience that is most likely built from people that want to go and experience things out there. And so looking for those creators. They don’t have to be just Airbnb creators to bring you value. In that travel realm, you’re probably going to find people that will be able to bring the value that you’re looking for. And there’s always great potential with everybody that you work with. But yeah, having your eye out for different people that you might be able to work with. 

[00:37:16] It’s not necessarily always the host’s number one priority to be scrolling through Instagram, or TikTok, or YouTube or anything like that, but that can be really helpful. Maybe just spending 20 minutes on a Thursday morning, just scrolling through, looking stuff up, and just seeing who’s out there, who could really bring me value.

[00:37:42] And then also, trying to partner with other hosts who have a very strong social media following. There’s different hosts out there that have hundreds of thousands of followers. And so try reaching out to them and getting their wisdom on their experience of building that following, but then also doing something where you can collaborate together.

[00:38:05] That way, you’re broadcasted to their following because their following is made up of people that want to go to their properties that are unique, that are special. And so if you have something like that, connect with them, and they’ll broadcast you to their following, and then you might bring up some more guests, some more bookings from that interaction.

[00:38:27] Mike: Yeah, we’ve worked with– you’re all familiar, uh, with Hope here in Explore Chattanooga? 

[00:38:34] Hayden: Yes, we are.

[00:38:35] Mike: Yeah. They’ve done some stays with us, and then we’ve utilized their services and worked out trade there. And then the picnic, uh, the bougie picnic, where they set in out your yard. 

[00:38:46] Nikki: Yeah.

[00:38:47] Mike: That somebody out of Atlanta. And then a local brewery, they have a beer that’s– the proceeds go to clean the river here in town. That works good at the river house. So finding geographic specific creators are also– when people are coming into the town, those are the things that they’re looking to do. I think that gets the word out as well.

[00:39:11] Hayden: Definitely. 

[00:39:12] Nikki: Yeah. I think, don’t be afraid to work with smaller creators because sometimes smaller creators have really loyal followings, which is amazing. And so if there is someone local and you really enjoy their content, even if they’re smaller, don’t be afraid to work with them because we wouldn’t be where we’re at today if people didn’t give us a chance. And so if they’re putting their best foot forward and you really enjoy your relationship with them, go for it. 

[00:39:38] Hayden: Yeah. And when we blew up on Instagram, both times, actually, both TikTok and Instagram, we were at, I think, 8,000 followers on Instagram. And we worked with a cabin up in New York, and the video that we posted blew up, got over 7 million views on Instagram. And they said that they had never seen a collaboration with an influencer as successful as that one. 

[00:40:09] And to this day, that relationship has continued, and it’s been very beneficial for both of us. But if they hadn’t have taken that chance and had us come– and they did pay. They paid us to come out when we only had 8,000 followers on Instagram. And so it’s like there is a lot of potential even with smaller creators as long as they are producing high quality content. And you can tell the difference. And you know high quality and good content. 

[00:40:41] There’s a lot of potential there. And the same thing happened with TikTok too. I think we had maybe 10,000 followers, and one of our first videos got over 1.5 million views for that treehouse that we did. And so there’s definitely more potential there than it may seem.

[00:41:01] Mike: I fought TikTok for a long time. I was like, I’m not doing it. That’s so stupid. That’s just a bunch of people dancing. 

[00:41:07] Nikki: Us too.

[00:41:08] Mike: I finally– you have that one video that goes crazy, and like four and million views, and here we are with 80,000 followers, and we get bookings from them. We get bookings from our TikToks. It’s a game that I don’t necessarily love to play, but it’s one that I think you have to.

[00:41:26] Nikki: Yeah. It’s so important because if you just think about, what do people do in their free time? They’re on their phones, and they’re on social media.

[00:41:33] Mike: They’re scrolling. All right. We’ve talked about all the good. Tell me what makes a property suck. When you pull up to that property, and you’re like, oh man, this is a bad idea oR an experience of property. Tell me about a bad experience with a host.

[00:41:50] Nikki: I think it starts before you even get there. I think poor communication up front can really damper and experience. If you don’t have the information you need, or the address, or the code, or they’re not responding, we’ve been very lucky. We’ve had really good experiences. But there are little things like communication that can be straight off really.

[00:42:14] Hayden: Yeah. There’s a lot of places that are in remote areas, and we were given the address, but then we weren’t given the code to actually get into the place, and we’re waiting for them to respond. We’ve been reaching out like, hey, what’s the code? What’s the code? We get there, and there’s no service. And so then we have to drive back out 30, 40 minutes, or whatever it is, just to get service to be able to try to contact them again. 

[00:42:46] Nikki: And so we’ve had hosts who anticipate that need. They’re like, hey, screenshot this. You will need it. The service is spotty until we get there. And so we really appreciate when that happens when, on the forefront, they make sure that we have a good check in experience. 

[00:43:00] Hayden: Yeah. And another thing is setting proper expectations.

[00:43:05] Nikki: Oh, yes.

[00:43:05] Hayden: If your property is in close proximity to other places, just make sure people know that. You don’t necessarily have to show it in the photos, but just explaining that in the message that they get once they book or in your listing is always important because there’s nothing worse than being super excited about this out of this world experience where I’m going to get away and be disconnected. And then you get there, and it’s like, wait a second. This is in a neighborhood. This is in somebody’s backyard. This is not the feel that I was going for.

[00:43:42] Nikki: But when you that ahead of time, you’re like, oh, okay, it still looks great. And then you’re at least aware before you go. We had ladybugs at our cabin in Gatlinburg, and so we would have our cleaners clean up the ladybugs before each guest, but we would let them know, hey, it’s ladybug season. You might see a few. Just a heads up. And we never had a complaint.

[00:44:02] Hayden: Yeah. And I think there’s only been one time where the place wasn’t cleaned super well. That’s always super important. And I know you know as a host, and many other, that making sure that you’ve got great cleaners, people who are going to take care of it. And at least get close to what you yourself would do in terms of the cleanliness is very important too.

[00:44:29] Nikki: 

[00:44:29] Mike: That goes back to staying at your property. I like to walk through my properties. And I don’t do it often enough, but I get frustrated every time I go because I see things, and I’m like, why hasn’t anybody said anything about this? This needs to be repainted.

[00:44:43] The turnover team has seen it every day, so it’s a gradual progression for them, and they’re not noticing it. But when I get up there, I flip my lid because I’m– we need to fix these things. That we want it be like pictures, and we want it to be that experience that they’re expecting. So I think that’s something. Inspect your properties, or have somebody walk your properties frequently, especially in these tiny homes. They get stuffed up because there are people moving luggage around. You don’t have the room that you have in a bigger home. 

[00:45:11] Nikki: Right, so true. 

[00:45:12] Hayden: Definitely.

[00:45:13] Mike: When you talk about communication– and I know things happen. It’s just the way it is. We went to Alaska a few weeks ago, and we had just opened the condo in Gulf Shores. And the first guest is coming while we’re on the cruise with spotty cell service. I think we were actually the flight on the way home. We have phones on airplane mode. And we had a co-host helping answer communication from the guests.

[00:45:41] They arrived and couldn’t find the unit. And instead of messaging through Airbnb where they booked and staying on the platform with it, they decided to text. Well, it was an hour and a half later before we received message saying that– we thought we had fail safes in place, and we did, but it didn’t go that way. So things do happen, and I think as guests, have to understand that those things do happen. But it’s frustrating when it happens to you. She was an hour and a half late to checked in because she couldn’t communicate with us. 

[00:46:17] Hayden: Yeah. There has to be that forgiveness there because you’re right. Things do happen. And we understand that more than most because we were hosts at one time. 

[00:46:27] Nikki: And things would go wrong, and we’d be like, oh my gosh, this is terrible. But most people, thankfully, are understanding, and we’ve even had hosts on stays that we just do for ourselves. If something goes wrong, they’re like, oh, I’ll give you a gift card, or this, or that, or I’ll pay for dinner. I’m so sorry that happened, or something along those lines, or give you a discount to help with something going wrong. And they definitely didn’t even need to do that in the first place because we understand things happen. And so, yeah, hosting can be stressful essentially. 

[00:46:59] Mike: It can be.

[00:47:00] Nikki: I have PTSD from the ding on Airbnb. I’m like, oh no, is something wrong?

[00:47:07] Mike: Exactly, we were able to work out a late checkout with them, so they were satisfied. Uh, I would’ve done the same thing, or something’s going on, and maybe the firewood guy dropped the firewood off in the driveway instead of putting it in the– they’re inconvenienced for 20or30 minutes. We’ll send a 20-dollargiftcard to the pizza restaurant down the street, and experience the area while you’re here. 

[00:47:30] Nikki: Yeah. 

[00:47:30] Hayden: Yeah. 

[00:47:31] Nikki: Because guests, they want to have a good time. They will.

[00:47:35] Mike: Well, I’ve really appreciated you guys coming on. This has been very insightful. What is next for Hayden and Nikki? 

[00:47:44] Hayden: Oh man, that’s a good question. 

[00:47:48] Nikki: We’re still trucking along. We are busy bees, and it’s still just the two of us. And so we are working really hard and going to different Airbnbs and hopefully having a trip out West again soon. And we have our passport, so we want to go abroad eventually. 

[00:48:07] Mike: Okay. Journey More international. Okay.

[00:48:11] Hayden: That’s right. Hopefully here soon.

[00:48:14] Mike: Okay. You’ll be too big come visit Chattanooga.

[00:48:17] Nikki: Never. We love Chattanooga. We love you guys.

[00:48:20] Mike: We’ll have you down the new treehouse soon. Hopefully, we’ll be ready in the next month or so.

[00:48:25] Hayden: We’re excited for you.

[00:48:26] Mike: How do we find you guys?

[00:48:28] Hayden: Well, we’re on Instagram and TikTok as @journey.more. And then YouTube, if you just type in Journey More, that’s us. And so that’s our main platforms. That’s where all of our content is. And I mean, we’ve stayed in over 70 of the most amazing Airbnbs in the US. So it’s a great way to find an awesome place to stay, and then also interact with us and really just see what we’re doing. 

[00:48:57] Nikki: Yes. And hosts, creators, reach out to us. We love to communicate and chat. So we are always here and open for conversation.

[00:49:05] Hayden: Yeah.

[00:49:06] Mike: What a fun life. It’s so awesome that guys get to experience this together and be with each other all the time, and, uh, hopefully, that doesn’t get too stressful.

[00:49:15] Nikki: Yeah. It’s a lot of hard work.

[00:49:17] Mike: It has. It’s moments.

[00:49:18] Hayden: It could be challenging and stressful at times.

[00:49:19] Nikki: We wouldn’t have it any other way.

[00:49:21] Hayden: Yeah. It’s amazing.

[00:49:23] Mike: All right. Guys, go on there and check them out on Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, and give them a like, subscribe, and a follow. Make sure to leave some comments for some comments for them. See you guys next time. 

[00:49:33] Hayden: Thank you, Mike.