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[00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, listeners. Welcome back for another great episode. My name is Sarah Karakaian.

[00:00:04] Annette: I am Annette Grant. And together we are–

[00:00:05] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting.

[00:00:06] Sarah: Let’s start this episode like we do every week, and that is sharing one of you, our amazing listeners, who’s using our hashtag on Instagram. That’s #STRShareSunday. We share you here in the podcast like we’re doing now, on our Instagram account on Sundays, to our entire email list. Annette, who are we sharing this week?

[00:00:23] Annette: This week we are sharing @magnoliaholidayhouse. Again that’s @magnoliaholidayhouse. Make sure to give them a follow. Couple of things I want to chat about specifically in their Airbnb listing that I love. They’re in Florida. So they have a beach theme, but it’s not cheesy to me at all.

[00:00:46] It’s really well done because I know Sarah and I live in Ohio. When we go to the beach, we do want to feel like we’re at the beach. We like those beach accents. They have even an accent colors as you enter the home, like a blue and a turquoise. And I think that’s just really, really well done.

[00:01:04] And then one of the things that I noticed throughout the house in each photo, whether it be a piece of furniture, maybe they have staged some beverages or food, and even pillows to some of their glassware and dinnerware in their kitchen. Almost every photo has a pop of color, and it kept me scrolling through.

[00:01:33] Everything is very clean, I can tell, but I love these pops of color throughout. They were really well done, and they kept me engaged as I was scrolling through their photos. So I would just– have yourself go through your photos and take a look. Even on their back patio, everything is white, but the umbrella was blue, and they had some fresh flowers out there.

[00:01:54] They have a bar cart, and on that bar cart, they made sure there was a plant that’s green and Pellegrino that was green. So just really thoughtful photos in their listing. So I want you to take a peek at that. And again, even some places in their outdoor area, they have white Adirondack chairs, but then they threw really bright pillows on them.

[00:02:14] So just really well done. They have an outdoor shower, which you don’t see– I love when I see the outdoor shower, but you can see they’ve actually staged the outdoor shower. They put the towels that you would use in the outdoor shower out there. So you’re like, oh, those will be ready for me when I return to the beach.

[00:02:31] So I think they just did a really excellent job of staging throughout their photos. And even their mailbox is part of a surfboard. So I love that they showed all of the elements where they’re weeding in the beach and the beach theme. So well done, Magnolia Holiday House. But I want to do a little thing that Sarah and I had a debate before the show. We’re going to share with you.

[00:02:53] Magnolia Holiday House, I noticed they didn’t have a carbon monoxide detector. It was struck through as if they did not provide one. And so Sarah and I started chatting about it because I’m like, oh, I’m going to say they should definitely get that so it doesn’t look like a safety hazard struck through.

[00:03:07] But then we started talking. This house is in Florida. They might not have it. Maybe they don’t have a gas oven. Maybe they don’t even have gas heat. And so it’s one of those things that, wait a second. Can you even show where we don’t even have an opportunity for carbon monoxide?

[00:03:23] So Magnolia or Holiday House, we’re wondering, do you have not any gas at all in your home? And is that carbon monoxide? Would it be worth it just to put one in even if you don’t have any gas appliances, but that way it’s not struck through on your Airbnb listing? So for those of you listening, I would take a look at your listing and see what amenities you have struck through so your guest isn’t seeing that also.

[00:03:47] Sarah: It used to make me really upset when Airbnb didn’t distinguish– you had to have.

[00:03:51] Annette: Right. Both.

[00:03:52] Sarah: When you clicked that you offered coffee, it said coffee and breakfast.

[00:03:55] Annette: And breakfast. Yes. And then guests would be like, you didn’t have breakfast. And you’re like–

[00:03:59] Sarah: So at the beginning I would have more bars.

[00:04:01] Annette: Breakfast bars. Yeah.

[00:04:02] Sarah: Because I was like, well, I don’t know what to do because, yes, I have coffee. So sometimes Airbnb–

[00:04:05] Annette: You’re not going to make people eggs, Sarah? Come on.

[00:04:08] Sarah: Absolutely not

[00:04:09] Annette: Omletes? Omlete bar?

[00:04:12] Sarah: No. I guess I could have a bed and breakfast, but make sure I have a cook.

[00:04:15] Annette: A chef. Yes.

[00:04:16] Sarah: Because I don’t even make eggs. Okay. Really pumped to introduce today’s guest. We’re going to hop the pond. This is someone we met when Annette and I were invited to that castle mastermind over in England. We met Louis Andrews, who is the director of OVO, OVO, OVO network, France. He corrects us in the interview. I think either way you say it is okay.

[00:04:43] Annette: Yeah, it’s like Vrbo and VRBO. They’ve had a transition.

[00:04:47] Sarah: But here’s how he describes what OVO Network France is. It’s a marketplace for high-end mountain homes in the French Alps, and we need to brag for him here, it’s the recent winner of the Best Leisure Property Manager in the World, award that was given to them at the Shortys.

[00:05:04] But here is where everyone is going to get a lot of value from today’s episode. I promise you, you’ve never heard of the way Louis manages these properties. It is the most creative, out of the box way, and they’ve been doing it for years. The way that he does it, I even checked myself during the interview and I’m like, I’ve told people like, there’s no way you could do it.

[00:05:25] He’s doing it, and he is crushing it. And so I think there’s a lot of value to help you guys think outside the box. There’s more than one way to manage your property, have it fit your lifestyle, have it fit your creative way of getting things done, but really excited to get you all inspired with Louis’s story.

[00:05:41] Louis, welcome to the show.

[00:05:43] Louis: Hi, guys. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

[00:05:46] Sarah: So we’re going to have to clean up our act and get professional here unlike all that fun we had at the castle with you because you’re actually quite the savvy business guy, and we learned so many cool things about where you manage, how you manage. And I’ll never forget Annette filling me in, and she goes, so I met this Louis guy. I was talking to him, and I don’t understand how he runs his business. I don’t understand. So then we cornered you on the bus to wherever we were going, some excursion.

[00:06:18] Louis: To the racecourse.

[00:06:19] Sarah: Yes, all the questions. So give us a backstory. Oh, go ahead, Annette.

[00:06:24] Annette: This is a thing that I didn’t understand. Louis doesn’t have to deal with turnovers. So my brain exploded. I’m like, how can you be in the short-term rental world, managing hundreds of properties, and not have to deal with cleaning and maintenance? So my brain still is exploding.

[00:06:48] I can’t wrap my head around that. So Louis, explain to everybody about OVO Network and the type of management that you do and how it came about because it is fascinating. It is fascinating for those of us that had never even heard of that style of managing.

[00:07:03] Sarah: Also, I think Annette pronounced it wrong. So also educate us on how you pronounce it.

[00:07:07] Louis: [Inaudible] It used to actually be called OVO Network, and then at some point, we realized that everyone was mispronouncing it, so we called it Ovo Network, but usually, it’s the OGs that call it OVO, so that’s fine, Annette. You’re just an OG.

[00:07:23] Annette: Okay. Thank you.

[00:07:24] Louis: Yeah, so we have 218 high-end properties in the French Alps for an average capacity of eight people, and with extra amenities ranging from your swimming pools to your jacuzzis and your saunas to your pétanque court, but none of your audience will know what that is, so that’s fine. But the Frenchies, if there’s a Frenchie, they’ll know what a pétanque court is.

[00:07:50] We were founded in 2008, the same year that Airbnb was founded. So even from an industry perspective, we weren’t yet synonymous with being in the Airbnb industry where we were doing something else, short-term rentals, I guess.

[00:08:07] At the heart of it, we were a technology solution for English owners to be able to optimize the rental of their second homes in the French Alps. And so we developed our own bespoke PMS, which is called PIMS, and we basically opened that up as a service that owners could buy into, and they could use to optimize, yeah, the rental of their property, so their revenue and their occupancy rate.

[00:08:42] And over the years, that’s grown. So originally it was very much the PMS or the distribution and things like that. And then little by little, we realized that we wanted to also market around this niche that we were developing which was high-end trialers in the French Alps. We started to build ovonetwork.com, which is our booking platform, or our marketplace, which gone is, I think, something around more than 50,000 visits per month.

[00:09:10] So bearing in mind we only have 218 properties, that’s a big, big, amount of traffic. 85% of our bookings come direct. So again, that’s industry leading. At the same time, we’ve got really good ratings on Airbnb with the longest running professional super host in France, on Airbnb.

[00:09:32] And on top of that, I’ll just really big myself up. And we were there together at the castle when we won, but we’ve also won the Best Leisure Property Manager in the world, at the Shortys as well. So, we’re doing well. And then the question that is amazing, and that we talk about all the time is that, yeah, we don’t actually do any of the physical property management, which is funny because obviously when you’re at all these events, people always ask, what’s your greatest challenge? What’s your biggest challenge?

[00:10:00] And the answer is always like, dealing with the cleaners and things like that. And it’s usually dealing with the cleaners, or dealing with the OTAs, or dealing with your PMS. So we don’t deal with the cleaners. We get 85% direct booking so we don’t deal with the OTAs, and we’ve built our own PMS, so we don’t have that problem either. It’s pretty cool.

[00:10:24] Sarah: And I want you to go back a little further because, correct me if I’m wrong, but your father founded–

[00:10:29] Louis: Yeah. So the origin story, then, is that, yeah, the company’s founded by two guys, one guy called Richard Little, who’s basically this fintech genius, had an incredibly successful career, who happens to have a second home in the French Alps, and my dad, who basically is an artist. He ran record labels in the UK. So some music labels in the UK, and had music studios.

[00:11:00] He quits that life when he’s around 35 years old and basically takes up skiing and enjoys that side of things. He’s still an avid tech fan, and he’s known as an avid tech fan by some of his neighbors. So the origin story is that the guy that invented bungee jumping is a guy called AJ Hackett, and he was one of our neighbors.

[00:11:25] And AJ Hackett, who’s a New Zealander who has bungee jumping sites all around the world basically says to my dad, right now I’m taking all my bookings through the phone. I’d like you to create a booking system. Because you like tech, you like technology, I’d like you to create a booking system for me to be able to take bungee jumping reservations. So they build that. And then after a while, he delivers that project, and he’s created that piece of tech.

[00:11:55] And then he’s like, I don’t know how to make a booking system. What do I do with this knowledge? And that’s when he talks with Rich Little and together they come up with this idea. Then they build a reservation system, not for bungee jumping, but for empty chalets in the French Alps.

[00:12:11] Annette: Sarah, did we even actually meet Louis? I feel like we didn’t even meet him. I’ve never heard of this bungee jumping gentleman. I feel very–

[00:12:17] Sarah: It’s like we don’t even know you.

[00:12:20] Annette: This is so cool. Now, I’m going to get down to some numbers about this. If I wanted to book a home with you in the French Alps in one your chalets, what would that cost me for a week in busy season, USD? Do you know per dollar?

[00:12:40] Louis: You had me until you said USD, and then you totally threw me.

[00:12:43] Annette: Well, we are American, so we want everything to be an hour–

[00:12:47] Louis: That’s very American of you. That’s fine. It varies massively. You’ve just asked for peak season, so I can tell you some peak season. Peak season in euros can be around 10k. If I look at what that is in USD– oh, the transfer rate is actually pretty flat right now. That’s around $11k.

[00:13:10] I’m just going to go off on a tangent boat because I think it’s a really, really interesting point to address. And there’s another thing that’s hugely differential between us and a lot of our competitors and other people from the industry, is that when I say to you, I run chalets in the mountains, you’re going to immediately imagine skiing and snow.

[00:13:34] However, we don’t see it that way at all, and so we really rather– a lot of our competitors, especially locally speaking, they’ll look at a chalet that’s for rent, and they’ll go out and they’ll rent it, and they’ll try and sell, let’s say, maybe five weeks in the year. So they’ll sell Christmas, New Year, three weeks in February.

[00:13:56] And they’ll sell those five weeks for 20k. And at the end of that, they’ll end up with, 100k for the owner, and they’ll say there we go. They’ll wipe their hands clean, and they’ll say, I’ve done my job. Now, the problem with this is that it means that it doesn’t help the local economy, in that if you’re a property manager, or a cleaner, or a gardener, or an electrician or a jacuzzi maintenance guy, you’re only working five weeks of the year, so that doesn’t help.

[00:14:23] In terms of the local economy in terms of the restaurants, and the bars, again, only five five weeks with people through, that doesn’t really help either. And then we’ve got a real crisis right now, which is linked to legislation, sustainability, and things like that, which is that empty properties aren’t good for anyone.

[00:14:42] Right now, locals aren’t able to live in the destinations and in the villages that they grew up in because the prices have risen massively because now you’ve got people that are just buying them a second homes and renting them out occasionally as investment. This is a long way to talk about pricing, but I think it’s critical, is that what we really try and sell our owners on, and we don’t sign on if they don’t agree with it.

[00:15:07] So if they’re not in alignment with us on this, we say to them, go and work with somebody else. We really try and make sure that whilst we’re optimizing revenue, the number one thing that we’re trying to optimize is occupancy rate. So right now, we’ve got what you guys probably think that we’re a winter destination. The reality is that we’re averaging around 49 to 50% year round occupancy.

[00:15:31] And so that means that right now we’re a winter destination, but we’re also a summer destination. And one of the things that we’re trying to tackle at the minute is the shoulder season, so autumn and spring. And that’s what we’re trying to optimize, because our whole goal here is to support the local economy, especially in a changing environment because there’s less and less snow because of climate change, and therefore it’s a questionable destination.

[00:15:57] We don’t know where we’re going in terms of its future. And that’s really something that we’re actively engaged in. And so therefore, my point, which was a long way to go around it is that we price, what we like to believe, in an affordable way. So if you’re going for peak season in February, it’s going to cost you a bit of money. It’s going to cost you probably all the way up to– I think per week, our most expensive day is around 20k.

[00:16:24] However, if you want to go in the off season, we can drop as low as like 1,500. We really try and make it as affordable as possible because we’re all about, also, making sure that guests can come once during a non expensive week and be really satisfied, and then come back the following winter because they’ve had such a nice time. So it’s also about like capturing those guests, making those guests want to come back.

[00:16:51] Sarah: That’s a really lovely, holistic way to look at your PnL. And also, the team that supports the business year round, did you always operate that way? And how has that affected your team? Do you have the cream of the crop when it comes to working with– and I want to get into that too, how you work with cleaners and the turnover people because obviously the reviews are going to matter. It matters that you have this holistic experience for your guests, but going back to it, did you guys always do that, and how has that affected the team that you’re able to work with?

[00:17:28] Louis: Great question. So in hindsight, we could say, yeah, we always work that way, but I think that’d be lying. I think that we’ve fallen into this. Even the way that our fee structure and our commission is worked on and even the type of niche that we operate in, because we really like to talk about niches and the fact that we work in a very tightly defined niche which then allows us to excel in that niche rather than trying to be an Airbnb when actually Airbnb is already Airbnb, i.e., they’re synonymous with the very thing that we do, so why trying to compete with that?

[00:18:02] We’re very happy to say, no, no, we’re something totally different, and we’re trying to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond rather than the opposite. But from the fee perspective, originally, our fees were way too low, like, way too low, absurdly too low. And what that meant is that the only way for us to make money was working with high-end chalets, not any type of property.

[00:18:28] And weirdly, that’s then what allowed us to define that niche, is by basically having to only sign high-end chalets, because that was the only way for us to actually make any money off of our very small commission. And then that’s basically become our strength because that’s now allowed us to define clearly what type of property we work with.

[00:18:47] With regards to the values, it’s something that we’re massively working on right now. I think that it’s something that we’ve always done. None of us come from this “business background.” We’re not very capitalistic, but for me, with more of this free flowing, people-centric company, which is the only reason why I’m working in the business, because that’s what I believe in, therefore, we want it to be affordable.

[00:19:16] We don’t want to be in these half off luxurious, big chalets that cost 40k per week and where the staff are being mistreated. And there’s this really high expectation around the word luxury, for example. We purposefully never use the word luxury because we know that the expectations then all of a sudden get turned on their heads.

[00:19:38] So we always say high-end. We never say luxury. Because we’ve been going to events and conferences, ever since 2013, even though we were this tiny company, I think we’ve always been at the forefront of the industry. So we’ve always really been tapped into how the industry works.

[00:19:55] And therefore, being engaged and seeing that as a strength is something that we’ve always done. And only now are we realizing what we’re able to do in terms of our values, and our brand positioning, and our unique selling propositions. And only now we’re actually really shifting our way of talking about the business.

[00:20:15] So, all this thing about really supporting the local economy, we’re doing that right now as a contradiction to all this legislative stuff that’s happening in France. There’s literally a law that’s just been passed, which is called the anti Airbnb law. On a senatorial level, that’s what they’re calling it.

[00:20:36] Both Annette & Sarah: Oh my gosh.

[00:20:37] Louis: I know. We’re saying, well, hang on. This is affecting all property managers, all sorts of rental managers, not just Airbnb. So it’s how to distinguish yourself from Airbnb, for example, and the answer is that we’re not a company from San Francisco.

[00:20:54] We’re people that live 40 minutes away from where these chalets are. So therefore, in terms of the value and the strength of the value and the human aspects, that’s really something that we’re pushing, and we’re still working on it right now. I think that we’re quite close to really tapping into something that is incredibly amazing.

[00:21:12] We’re starting to present ourselves in this way, which is a way that we believe in, and I think that that’s really important. Because otherwise you end up doing what’s called purpose watching where you just end up, yeah, it’s all about purpose, and then you don’t really believe in it. So we’re still fine tuning it. But we’re starting to, talk to all the resorts, and talk to the local mayors, and talk to the local tourist offices, and the tourist boards, and the restaurants, and the bakeries, and the lift pass people.

[00:21:39] We’re talking to everyone. We’re actively engaged with all the local actors, and then our owners as well. And it’s like you switch on a light bulb. And the way that people are receptive to you when you say to them– if you say to them, I’m a property manager. I rent out chalets. They’re like, yeah. Okay, cool.

[00:21:58] If you say to them, I bring in– we’ve got the numbers. I’ve not got them in front of me, but it is interesting. I think we’ve brought in over 270,000 guests through our doors since we’ve been founded. So then we’ve got the numbers of what that represents in terms of average spend per week per person.

[00:22:20] So then you go to the local man, you go, this is how much I represent for your economy. And then they go, Oh, wow, that’s amazing. So we’ve got this whole thing of people buying into this incredibly.

[00:22:29] And I’ll just finish on this point that I think it illustrates this amazingly, is that we held an owner events two weeks ago, where we were talking about our values and what we were trying to do and the fact that we care about them and we want them to care about their guests and we want them to care about the local economy as well, and it was fantastic because the following day, I received a WhatsApp vocal message that lasted four and a half minutes from one of my owners, and it’s just this basically really long rant, very similar to the really long rant that I’m doing right now, and the whole thing is about how proud he is of being part of OVO Network. Insane as a property manager to reach that. So there you go.

[00:23:14] Both Annette & Sarah: That’s incredible.

[00:23:15] Annette: So Louis, these owners, are they seeking you out or is their property– would they consider their property manager that’s doing the turnovers and the cleans and the maintenance? Are they property managers also? And who are you seeking? Are you trying to find the owners or the property managers? How do you find your clients?

[00:23:35] Louis: Great question. Multiple ways. As I said at the top, we’ve got a huge amount of traffic that comes to our website. And on our website at the top right corner, we’ve actually got an Add Your Property button. So what that does is that when you click on that, it then takes you to what we’ve called our calculator. And our calculator basically, is a interactive page where you say, like, this is my type of property. This is the number of bedrooms. This is the number of swimming pools. This is the number of toilets, whatever you want, and where it is.  And the square meterage and stuff like that.

[00:24:09] You hit submit. You’ll instantly in your email receive an assessment report basically from us saying, this is how much you can make. That instantly goes into our sales team’s pipe drive, and the sales team normally instantly call up the owner and say–

[00:24:27] Annette: Are you listening, sales team? Better be instantly.

[00:24:31] Louis: Exactly. I’d call up that person. So there’s that way. Then I think it’s 60% of our owners were previously guests. So that’s another way that we really attract– because obviously you’ve got to remember that the destination that we’re in is a dream destination. So people are dreaming of moving their dreaming of owning a property there.

[00:24:52] And the only reason, how you can really get a feel for that dream, is by staying in a property yourself. So we’ve got a lot of people that come in, and in our guest review, we asked the question, would you be interested in buying a property in the French Alps? And then they get–

[00:25:05] Annette: That is genius. Oh my God.

[00:25:07] Louis: And then we feed them into an email loop, which then means that we’re starting to work on them and make sure that we’re giving them all the information that they need to potentially then become owners themselves. And then to go back to the question which is around property management, we don’t call ourselves a property manager, we call ourselves a platform basically.

[00:25:31] But then the local actors, we call them chalet managers. So the chalet managers are the people that do the welcoming and manage the cleaning team. So they’re contracted directly by the owners. And the way that it works from us is that we have loads of contacts that are chalet managers.

[00:25:48] And then when an owner signs with us, because they found us either through Google or as a past guest, or through a referral, they’ll then say to us, who can do the physical management of my property?

[00:26:00] And then we’ll introduce them to three people, and we’ll say, is this person, this person, this person, and then they contract directly with this person. And I think the point that’s interesting about this, and you may disagree with me because you’re not applying this system, for me, I just feel like knowing how to price, markets, distribute, and strategize and optimize a property’s performance is an entirely different job to knowing how to clean really well and manage really well and be welcoming.

[00:26:33] Because you should see some of our people be behind the scenes. If you put them in front of guests, the guests would run away. But when they’re hidden behind the website, I’m joking, but when they’re hidden behind the website, obviously, that’s not a problem. So, to me, they’re very clearly distinct jobs. And I do find it interesting because I feel like we’re one of the only companies that I’ve ever met that operates in this way.

[00:26:57] And yet, I just feel like it removes so many of the challenges. And then to just go back to your question, though, the owners come through us through various different platforms and channels. Where we do strike gold is when a chalet manager falls totally in love with our system because they want to focus on what they’re really good at, so the cleaning and the welcoming, they find that we’re incredibly complimentary.

[00:27:25] And we’ve got a few now that basically work with us on let’s call it, an exclusive basis, which means that every single property that they sign on their ends, they’ll tell their owner, if you want to work with me, you’ve got to work with OVO Network. And then that’s where we’re really hitting gold.

[00:27:42] Annette: Wow. Yeah. This is good stuff. Just taking notes.

[00:27:48] Sarah: Because there’s a lot of listeners out there who are, I would like to say, like me, and I’m a control freak, especially when it comes to controlling a five-star stay. How does that trust start with the chalet managers? When you are maybe onboarding a new Chalet manager or hey, you’re growing, you need more of them, what are you looking for and how do you vet to make sure that they are going to uphold your standards that you advertise on your website and in your marketing? How does that work?

[00:28:20] Louis: I gave a presentation at scale Barcelona last year all about how to get good guest reviews. I cheated because at the end I said the way to get good guest reviews is to only work with properties that are going to get good guest reviews. So I see the type of property is really important because, the English expression, which may sound a bit rude, you can’t polish a turd. I don’t know if you say that in American as well.

[00:28:45] Sarah: I don’t think so.

[00:28:48] Louis: You get what I mean, right?

[00:28:49] Annette: Yeah.

[00:28:50] Louis: So we don’t work with turds. We only work with really nice properties. And then also, even just with regards to pricing, the pricing is so important in terms of managing expectations because if somebody overpays– but then that goes back to not using luxury, for example. It’s all about setting expectations first and foremost.

[00:29:07] And that’s why back in 2000 and probably 10, from the very get go, OVO Network, we totally understood the importance of photography. I’m sure you guys talk about it all the time, how important photography is, so that’s fantastic. But at the time when we were doing good photography, this is literally at the time where everyone was taking wonky pictures with their cell phones.

[00:29:33] And good photography isn’t just a photo that looks nice because in our business photography needs to be transparent. If there’s a plug socket or if the property is close to roads, that needs to be reflected in the photography because otherwise you’re setting yourself up for failure because the guests are coming with an expectation.

[00:29:56] Our whole point is that we actually almost undersell the property so that it’s a nice surprise when you arrive, rather than overselling the property and for it to be a disappointment because we know that those first 10 minutes when you arrive in a property are the most important.

[00:30:14] So to go back to the guest review point then, which is all around, okay, we’re control freaks. We really want to have that full control. So we provide training to the property managers or the chalet managers if they want it. We have an online training course, and we also do in-person training courses. We meet with them on a fairly regular basis to really help them. We’ve got a really, really, really high open rate and response rate to all our guest questionnaires.

[00:30:42] It’s a two part guest questionnaire. The first one is like, you’ve got your net promoter score, so, on a scale of zero to 10, how likely are you to recommend OVO over to friends? And then there’s a couple of other questions. It’s actually a two part in the sense that they can fill in that and submit it, or they can say, I’m happy to answer more. And if you answer more, we then have loads and loads of more questions if people have got time. And all of this is about cleanliness and how welcoming the chalet manager is, and things like that.

[00:31:11] And we just hold people accountable and make sure that they’re trained in the right way. And weirdly, I think in 2023, we were the second highest rated professional hosts on Airbnb in the entirety of Europe. And yet, we don’t do the physical property management. It’s insane the fact that we’ve managed to do that.

[00:31:34] Sarah: You’re proving me wrong because I’m sure I’ve given people advice in the past of like, no, you’ve got to be in charge of finding the cleaners, and you have to be in charge of X, Y, Z. And you’re just proving me wrong, which I love because there is more than what we say here. There’s more than one way to skin a cat, which actually probably is not a thing. I shouldn’t say anymore because I actually love animals. But there’s more than one way to do things.

[00:31:56] Annette: Are you the merchant of record when someone books a reservation?

[00:32:00] Louis: No, they booked directly with the owner.

[00:32:03] Annette: Now we’re digging in. Then let’s talk about your– do you call it commission? Do you call it fee? What’s the terminology? Louis is shaking his head at me because he’s like, no. What is it then, when I am an owner and I am happily paying for, I’m going to call it OVO, because that’s what I’m going to do here, Network services– how am I paying, and what am I paying, and how are you presenting this return on my investment? How do you frame that for the owner?

[00:32:31] Louis: We don’t call it a commission. We call them the fees. So we have two main fees. There are a bit more than two, but mainly small admin fees. I’ll just talk about the main two, because they’re the ones that are very interesting and interesting for the listeners. And we’re going to then circle back around on direct bookings because this is where it gets spicy.

[00:32:48] So the fees that we have is we have two. We have a service fee and a distribution fee. So the service fee is, I’ll tell you the percentage, is 12.5%, and that’s something that’s applied on every single booking regardless of the source. So what that covers is our main service, so the property management software, the revenue management tools, the distribution, the marketing.

[00:33:14] Our newsletter has got something like 35,000 subscribers. You both know that we’ve got this 90,000 Instagram account as well. So that’s all covered by the service fee. And then, for ages, we only had just a service fee. And that was fine, but then we realized that all these other platforms were charging distribution fees.

[00:33:39] So Airbnb is charging 15%. For Booking.com, same, and yet when you realize that 85% of every single booking is coming through your own platform, you’re going, well, hang on a second here. We’re providing an amazing service for free, and that was fantastic for our historical owners. And we’ve got no regret with that, but now what we’ve introduced is a distribution fee, which is, again, 12.5%.

[00:34:04] And the distribution fee is taken for every single booking that comes directly on ovonetwork.com platform, which has proved to be really successful for us and allow us to have a bit more room to develop the projects that we need to develop in order to maintain and secure the type of performance that our owners are used to because, just as an aside, but since 2019, supply has absolutely exploded in the French Alps. It’s increased by 89%. So the market’s totally oversaturated and is really, really competitive. So we’ve had to make sure that we’re in a position of strength in order to combat that.

[00:34:39] Annette: And your owners, I’m sure, because you’re going above and beyond, you’re not booking five weeks. They’re gladly paying the fee. Do you ever have a rub? When you had these grandfathered properties that paid no distribution fee, and then all of a sudden you brought that in, what type of dance had to happen there? Or was it like, do we go 5%? 10%, or was it like, new year, new fee? Let’s go.

[00:35:09] Louis: Yeah, so we went 5% for two years, and then we went 12.5. I won’t lie to you. I am still dancing,

[00:35:17] Annette: Okay. We appreciate that.

[00:35:19] Louis: There’s still these challenges, which is totally normal. I met with an owner in his chalet last week, and he’s decided to leave us for various reasons, mainly because he’s retired and sold his business. His wife has retired and sold her business, and they’ve been with us for 10 years, and it’s a really lovely discussion because I think the slight mistake, I don’t know if it’s a mistake, but the slight challenge that we’ve got is that we can perform so well.

[00:35:51] We have some chalets, their occupancy rate year round is at 97%. And this is in a destination that nobody’s ever heard of. So when the owners’ philosophy aligns with our strategy, the sky’s the limit, and we can do amazing things together. But the only thing is that historically, so we’re going back to like, how we talk about our brand and how we talk about our product, the way that we talked about it is, as if all of this happened by magic.

[00:36:27] So we would never overly communicate to any of our owners about all the hard work that we were doing. It was like, flick of a switch, sit back, count the cash, everything’s lovely. However, that’s not the reality because it’s actually so much work, as you both know, and it’s so much time and so much effort.

[00:36:46] So right now, that’s one of the things that we’re trying to deal with, is that we’re saying to people, look, this is a ton of work. But they’re going, yeah, but I’m used to 90% occupancy and maybe this year I’m at 85. And then when you say, yeah, but the markets effectively doubled in five years in terms of supply and demands dropping because we’re no longer in the period of the COVID period. And there’s loads of geopolitical tensions and all this stuff going on. There’s no snow, so many outside factors.

[00:37:11] The reality is that they’re just going to look at their bottom line and go, yeah, but I’m earning less money. I’m going to try and do it myself. So I think right now we’re at a period where some owners are asking themselves questions and these are mainly owners that do the welcoming themselves, which is a certain type of owner.

[00:37:28] Because they have that physical contact with the guests, which then means that they can actually go, just send me a text message, and I’ll take cash. So that’s a real challenge. And I think that some of those owners, a couple of them, really not that many, are deciding to flap their own wings and fly away and try.

[00:37:46] Sadly, my guess is that they’ll struggle because the market is so saturated and because they’re not associated with a brand which has such prevalent strength and slide and impact on a local level. And therefore, my guess is that, some of them will swallow their pride and come back, and some of them maybe not. But that is one of the challenges that we’re facing today.

[00:38:08] Annette: For sure. It sounds like it’s common, and this is for all of our listeners that are co-hosts. These are the same things you’re going to come up against, is what Louis and they are contending with. But it’s really interesting. Sarah and I haven’t really chatted with anyone internationally about what post COVID people– I guess I’ve never even thought about how that impacted the entire world with drivable destinations and people not being able to leave their country.

[00:38:37] You’re feeling that back to balance pre-COVID reservations also because people are traveling, everywhere now. Have you guys felt that tremendously? It sounds like you’ve got a lot going on, oversaturation and lack of snow, plus maybe post-COVID vacations. And how are you– because this will help our hosts that are listening right now. You have three different things, well, four. We’re in an election year here in the US, so spending gets really crazy.

[00:39:06] Louis: Yeah.

[00:39:07] Annette: It’s a volatile year. The climate change is very interesting because we have beach towns and mountain towns going through the same thing that you’re chatting with– oversaturation. How are you talking to your team? You said you’re high occupancy, but is this a daily battle? You guys are in the trenches too. What are you doing with your team, with your owners to combat this and make sure that you’re being able to offset some of these wild tides that are coming in right now? What is the conversation with your team and your owners to just keep morale high and stay in the business?

[00:39:43] Louis: Yeah. I think the key words in everything that we do is around education. So it’s educating people on reality, educating people on the market, educating people on what to expect. And I think that that’s one thing that we’ve really shifted towards right now. I don’t know how many of your listeners will have a company set up in this way, but we basically have account managers within OVO Network who are the sole point of contact between the owner and the business.

[00:40:16] So they’re very much the champions. They’re the consultants. They’re the business performance experts, if you will, that advise our owners on a daily basis. And that was one of our teams that was maybe just not optimized in the most efficient way.

[00:40:30] I think that that was the big shift that we’ve implemented, the one we’re currently implementing is, I think, to really clearly illustrate what I mean is that the account managers, I think, historically, they’d come into work. They’d open their email. They’d look at the top email, and that would be their priority for the next one hour.

[00:40:50] So it’s reactive work. So what we’re trying to do right now is to shift from being reactive to proactive. And what that means is that you’re looking at the market trends and you’re looking at stuff like COVID or the geopolitical context and things like that, and you’re going, okay, well, I can see that this problem is happening.

[00:41:07] I can see that we’ve had two bad winters two years in a row. Next winter, rather than letting this happen again and for this owner to blow up in my face and say, you’ve screwed up three years in a row now. I’m going to leave. You anticipate that and you’re proactive about it now and you say, look, this is what’s happened over the past two years. This is what’s going to happen again if we don’t adapt.

[00:41:28] Let’s anticipate because what we’ve realized is that like, I have so many conversations now with owners where it gets to a difficult point maybe in their relationship with us and they don’t want to listen to our pricing. And I basically get called in, as you’ve described, on the front line, last resorts, coming in to basically try and save this relationship.

[00:41:50] And sometimes it doesn’t work and sometimes it does. When it does, it’s incredible because we have these heart to heart conversations with owners, and we educate and we explain. We say, look, this is not the same. Okay, maybe two years ago during COVID, we told you to massively increase your pricing. And yes, you’re right. Now we’re asking you to decrease your pricing. And it’s a bit hypercritical because we’re going against what we’ve said ourselves.

[00:42:19] However, we educate them on the new context that they’re currently operating in and the new state of the market. And then what’s amazing is that the people that end up listening to us and agreeing and saying, okay, well, I am going to review my pricing strategy, say, the results are usually so positive that they speak for themselves.

[00:42:46] I’ll give you a quick example. So we had one owner that stayed with us for 15 months, and they never listened to our pricing strategy. And they got two bookings in total. And they made €23,000 total because they were pricing really high. So that’s I guess, $24, 000, and they basically went, yeah, we’re not satisfied here. We’re going to leave. And they left.

[00:43:14] Then, what’s cool is that the new owners signed with us again. So they were again with us. It was the same property, different owners. The owners applied our pricing strategy, and they made in the same amount of time €230,000 . So that’s an example of like, if we get buy in, and if we educate people in the right way and they agree to listen to us, again, sky’s the limit.

[00:43:38] Annette: Those numbers are real. And I think for our listeners that haven’t maybe take an advantage of even a third party dynamic pricing plugin, please take the time to look at that because you do need to have a pricing strategy, and it’s not going to be overnight that it’s going to come into play for you, but it’s well worth it once you develop the strategy and can implement it and maybe worth it for you to hire someone to help you with that pricing strategy if you haven’t had someone helping you with the pricing before.

[00:44:13] So did you sign that old owner? Did you send him that report? Don’t you want to just suck it to him and accidentally slip it in the mail? Oh, sorry. It went to the wrong email. It went to the wrong address.

[00:44:26] Louis: No, we haven’t.

[00:44:27] Annette: Or do you use that as a case study though? Do you use that as a case study for your–

[00:44:31] Louis: That is literally a case study that we have. So we’ve got that. We’ve got other ones. We had another one. It’s quite good. We had a property in one of the villages in which we operate. They were with one of our competitors. Again, we’re really good friends with all our competitors, so it’s no real feelings, but they were with one of our competitors for a year and they obtained one booking, and it’s now been just about a year since they’ve been with us and we’ve obtained 43 bookings.

[00:44:58] Annette: So that’s the difference right there. It’s in the numbers. I know it works like, wait a second. What do you mean? You don’t do any of the turnovers? You don’t do any maintenance? But it’s the data.

[00:45:09] Louis: It gives us time to focus on what– I have so much respect for people that do the cleaning and the welcoming and all the in person exchanges. And I know that I probably wouldn’t be capable of having that level of patience and that attention to detail, so therefore I’m leaving them to what they’re really good at.

[00:45:28] And then what we are really good at is data. And we often say like, lead with data. Because it’s like without data, you’re just another person with an opinion. And that’s so right. So you’re talking to owners, and they’re like, yeah. We’ve always got this conversation. My chalet is worth this amount per week. And you’re like, yeah, but it’s not really, is it? And they’re like, it’s the best chalet in the village. Yes, it is.

[00:45:53] And then they set that pricing way too high, and then the week goes by or the weeks go by, they get zero bookings. And therefore you can set your pricing at €10,000, €20,000. Unless that converts to a booking, it’s at zero. So we really try and counter that and say, look, don’t look on– okay, quick tip on pricing.

[00:46:15] So don’t look at Airbnb and look at what your neighbors are pricing their property at because if it’s still available on Airbnb, that means that it’s not sold. And that’s one of the very basic mistake I think so many of our owners make, is that they go, yeah, but Michelle who has a chalet the next door, he’s pricing at X amount.

[00:46:31] It’s like, yeah, but you can still see that he’s priced X amount, which means that he’s not sold yet. So don’t look at him. We’ve got the data of all the properties that have sold. Look at our data. So I think leading with data is really important. And then pricing is the key to every single thing that we do, so pricing is super important.

[00:46:49] Sarah: I want to make sure I understand, too, Louis. Do you guys do pricing for your owners or can they opt out of you doing the pricing for them?

[00:46:56] Louis: Yeah, it’s a total cooperative exercise. So the way that it works is that we’ll suggest pricing to our owners, and then those owners can either agree to the pricing, or they can review the pricing, or they can basically decide that they want to do something totally different.

[00:47:16] Usually we really try and make sure that they do agree to the pricing because at the end of the day, we know what’s best for them. But yeah, it’s a collaborative way. But it’s a good question to ask because that is one of our challenges, is that we can’t just set pricing for our owners and say, this is what we’re pricing your property out.

[00:47:34] Because again, it’s a business partnership to help them run their own business and the contracts with them and their guests. We’re not just signing a mandate and then running the chalet for three years and paying them or whatever. It’s very much a collaborative way of working.

[00:47:52] Sarah: I think you’re giving so many people– and also, listeners, let’s say you’re not interested in starting a property management company or a co-hosting company. I think you can also take a lot away from this episode of just getting out of your own way as an owner, because we can get so close to our properties, Louis. All this blood, sweat, and tears you do of finding the property, and then furnishing the property, and then all the things you see on social media, like, you have these very aspirational goals for your property.

[00:48:17] But that there is a market, it does exist, and especially today, we face the same things here in the US, whether you’re in a destination. We’re in Columbus, Ohio, which is not a vacation destination, but we still face the same– new hotels are popping up in our downtown area, and people have more options than ever.

[00:48:34] And so you just have to be proactive, look at the data, but also, it’s like data, from three years ago isn’t going to help us forecast for data for next year either. So you also have to, all encompassing, look at what’s ahead of us. So how are you guys doing that? The data from even 2022, 2023 is helpful, but what’s next for OVO Network, and what are you guys doing to adapt? Are you hopeful? Is travel going to be– is it going to normalize a little bit or what are you guys seeing there?

[00:49:09] Louis: Yeah, it will normalize. It’s just we don’t know what the normal is. We’ve been referencing to all our owners. We’re saying like we’re in a new normal because the reality is like even if you’re looking back at COVID, us as a business, we are not the same business we were in 2019, so we can’t take that as a reference because we’ve doubled the amount of properties that we’re listing and we’ve got so much more of a presence.

[00:49:33] And then as you’re saying, is that the market’s totally shifted as well. One thing that I think is hugely valuable is that whilst there are loads of amazing revenue management third party tools, we’ve got an in-house revenue manager who’s literally on the payroll, full-time employee. Her role is revenue manager.

[00:49:51] And for us, that’s entirely, I think, the right solution. And her role is then to look at market trends because that’s what your question’s around eventually. It’s around the market trends and how to anticipate them, how to be proactive about them. And basically, her whole role is looking at pricing.

[00:50:12] And I think that what’s important is that we’ve tried so many third party revenue management tools just to assist us, and we’ve always found that our own systems and our own bespoke systems are better for the particular needs that we need because it’s such a huge question around locality for us.

[00:50:32] So if your property is 20 meters away from the the ski slopes, or a kilometer away, or if you’re south facing or north facing, all these things affect the value of your property massively in the same way that from one village to the other, it’s like the renting prices can be absolutely insane.

[00:50:56] So we’ve got somebody that’s literally full-time who’s really good. And his whole job is analyzing all of this and anticipating all of this. You’re right. Again, we’re falling back on this education subject of like, it’s a new normal. And we can’t take the COVID bubble. We can’t take the pre COVID stuff. So we’ve got to accept that. And that’s why recently we’ve been saying that 2023 is finally a real reference year, and now our goal is to build on top of that year, basically.

[00:51:30] Annette: Okay. Right there. That’s the gold for all of our listeners, the reference year. Because we know people are going through it. But this is what I love, is you have 2023 numbers for your reference year. This is the one thing with short-term rentals that’s the bummer, but also comforting is you have 365 days.

[00:51:47] Most of us right now could do back of the napkin math. If I book at 100% at my highest daily rate, 100% occupancy, that is pretty much the max you’re going to make. It’s the max you can make. And it’s just like knowing those numbers and sitting in that, we have so many hosts that are unrealistic about what their property can earn.

[00:52:12] So do that math for yourself. Do 100% occupancy at that top rate. And that’s not going to happen, but I think if you at least know that and equip yourself with that, it’s going to lead you to not feeling– because we have owners that own these homes that are feeling bad, and it’s like, it will take away that feeling when you know the data.

[00:52:34] So do yourself a favor, listeners. Do you do yourself a favor. Do you and your spouse if you own the property with your spouse, your business partner. Know your numbers because it shouldn’t take out all that emotion. We have a lot of people like, should we sell my property? Maybe you should, but don’t do it without knowing the math and being equipped with the data ahead of time.

[00:52:54] Because like Louis said, it’s just an opinion. And you might be selling a really great property with these opinions that you have right now, because it’s not making what your opinion thought it should make. So really, it’s a lot of people don’t want to face the numbers, but facing the numbers are going to help you make these financial decisions for your property and probably for your family.

[00:53:16] So I love that maybe taking a look at like, let’s let go of those COVID numbers, everyone, and look at that 2023 and make that your reference number. Because Louis looking at 218 properties, I think you said the beginning.

[00:53:31] And you guys could sit and lament all day long on these old numbers, but that’s not what it is. So let’s be thankful for it. It’s what happened, but now it’s time to rebalance and have new numbers. So I really love that, that you have that, letting your owners know that too, that that’s the reference year that you’re looking at. So cool.

[00:53:50] Louis: Yeah.

[00:53:50] Annette: All right. So last question. Where should we buy a house in the French Alps, Sarah? Where would you buy? If you were going to buy right now, Louis, we’ve got somebody out there that’s going to come to you. They want to buy. If we wanted to buy, are you the person to come to? Is there a button on your website? Do you want to buy a property?

[00:54:07] Louis: We’re not big fans of estate agents, so we’re not an estate agent ourselves.

[00:54:12] Annette: Oh, that’s a another whole episode.

[00:54:13] Louis: Yeah, exactly. I’ll see you next week. So no, we don’t sell properties ourselves. However, we do have estate agent partners who we are partnered with and who know of us, and again, who we are contractual partners with. So they can advise you, and it’s a really good investment as well because we’ve seen that owners that run successful property management business with OVO Network and achieve the type of figures that we can achieve, they then managed to, on the resale market, sell their property for around 15 to 20% more than they would have if it wasn’t a successful property rental business.

[00:54:55] So there’s a lot of potential, and yeah, you can come to us, and we’ll be able to advise you on who to contact and also advise you on what type of property you should be buying because there’s huge things like bedroom to bathroom ratio and equipment and stuff like that that’s really important when you’re buying a short-term rental property. So we can advise you on that and where is the most cost effective resort to buy as well.

[00:55:19] Annette: And for any of our listeners that want to travel to the French Alps, they want to stay, they are planning a bucket list trip, where would you advise them to go and to stay?

[00:55:29] Louis: Anywhere that we have on our website.

[00:55:32] Annette: Okay. I like that. You’re backing it up.

[00:55:36] Louis: Okay, so our pageline is unique chalets in authentic destinations. So there’s a lot under that. Unique means that there’s a wow factor. It means that it’s not just your terrible Airbnb that’s full white walls and it’s totally impersonal and there’s no distinction between your apartment or house or whatever chalet to the next one, to the neighbors one.

[00:56:01] We really try and focus on properties that have got something unique, whether that be the property itself or the amenities, the facility, the view, because obviously we’ve got some incredible views in our tallies. And yeah, that’s obviously the main thing that’s really important. And then authentic destinations is also key because we basically prioritize destinations that are authentic.

[00:56:24] And authentic means that it’s not your really high altitude, super expensive, luxurious, probably you end up paying too much for your state than it’s worth. And so we really focus on authentic destinations, which means that there’s a lot more– it just goes back to the values, helping the local economy and going to see the cows and eating local cheese and all these stuff, that’s a real experience.

[00:56:49]  And I think I will say, because it’s quite interesting, we’ve had a few discussions recently with regards to American owners, they’re looking to invest and to buy. And I think that a point that’s really important to highlight is the fact that, even to travel too, it’s less expensive to travel to France and stay in an OVO Network property than it is for most Americans to travel to Denver or Utah and do that type of stay because in terms of pricing, we’re way more affordable, and again, the whole trip is way more authentic, so definitely check out and rent a property with us. It’ll be worth it.

[00:57:34] Sarah: My next question is, Louis, if you’ve inspired someone, I don’t know, are you up for conversations? If so, where can people find you?

[00:57:42] Louis: Yeah, just hit me up on LinkedIn. I’ll talk, as you can see, a lot to anyone that’s willing to listen.

[00:57:49] Sarah: Which is what we love about you, your willingness to share how you run your business, and how proud you are. You can just see how easy it is for you to promote and talk about your company because you truly believe in everything that you’re doing. In our industry, it’s a breath of fresh air, and that you’ve been doing it for so long, and this isn’t just something you guys have picked up.

[00:58:08] Not that there’s anything wrong with getting on the bandwagon during COVID, but it’s really lovely that you’ve been doing it for so long and you still believe in it so much. Yeah, so very excited to see where you guys go next. Thanks for that invitation. Everyone, we’ll put Louis’s information in our show notes, so you could poke around learn about him. He’s also super fun just to hang around and have a beer with.

[00:58:31] Annette: Only snake bites. He only drinks snake bites.

[00:58:34] Louis: Yeah, I was going to say snake bites.

[00:58:38] Annette: It’s okay. And then everybody, go to OVO Network. Check it out because I know they’re at 50,000 website hits. Let’s get them to 55. Let’s have all of our all of our listeners hit the site, maybe book a stay.

[00:58:50] If you book a stay, let us know. We’ll be jealous. Definitely go to the website though, because I think you gave a lot of inspiration on those calls to action of like, do you want to sign up your property with us? I love your post stay surveys of like, would you like to own a property?

[00:59:07] If you are a real estate agent here, if you are a cohost here, a property manager, what a great way to ask your guest on their way out if they would like to own a property in the area. Because the last thing I want to leave with, and we did talk about this when we were together, Louis, is that you only need one person to say, yes, we’d like to, own a property here, or you only need one person that DMs you that’s interested in being a property owner.

[00:59:34] And I think we get jaded by all of these 50,000 web and Instagram and this and that, but as a parting word, let our listeners know how the power of one and just getting that one lead can generate for their businesses or themselves, that one guest reoccurring.

[00:59:50] Louis: Yeah, but are you saying this in reference to something that we’ve already discussed then?

[00:59:54] Annette: Yes. Just talking about Instagram and that it doesn’t need to be hundreds of thousands of people liking your photos or DMing. It could be one DM or someone seeing a post.

[01:00:04] Louis: Totally, yeah. Yeah, really, the example that comes to mind with regards to this and with regards to Instagram is that we’ve got an Instagram account that’s now called @ovonetwork.chalets, and that’s got 90,000 followers on it. And it’s a tool that we’ve been using to basically– our commercial offering but it’s more being run just as a fan page of chalets, and we’re currently switching to it being our main Instagram account. And we’ve been running it for quite a few years now.

[01:00:40] But the power of one is like, okay, so what’s the ROI on developing an Instagram page like that? And for a long time we didn’t really have the answer. And then since then we basically ended up obtaining one owner, totally randomly, who contacted us originally through Instagram and sent us a message and said, I really like your page. How can I have my photos appear on your Instagram page? And we said, oh, well, you’ve got to join OVO Network, of course. You’ve got to be part of the family.

[01:01:13] That was the entry point. That’s how we started to discuss where we were, and her property is absolutely amazing. It’s in Switzerland, and I’ve just checked the gross booking value figures, and she’s at €195,000. So that’s a power of one. One person reached out, came to us, and we’ve made a successful return on that. And again, I think it all comes back to again, just the human contact side of things.

[01:01:43] And even the power of one is also just the power of one discussion. In the example where I was saying you talk to one owner who’s dissatisfied and who’s grumpy, and who isn’t achieving the results that they want to achieve, in part because they’re not applying the right strategy, if you have that one discussion where you meet them face to face, and you visit their property, and you listen to their stories and you see how much affection and love they have for their property, because these secondhand homes are their babies, that’s their pride and joy. That’s their biggest investment in their whole lives.

[01:02:14] And you listen to them and then you educate them. And you pay them– tell them in a quite transparent way that, look, your strategy right now doesn’t align and doesn’t fit with your aspirations, but together we can achieve something. If you have the right values and you have that one conversation in the right way, you can totally flip around the whole scenario and achieve something amazing together. So for sure, I think that it’s good to look at stuff on a macro level, but also on a micro level.

[01:02:41] Annette: Yeah, because, just to relate it to our owner operators that are listening, it could be one DM on Instagram that is a direct booking and then they come back year after year after year and you do that math, and then it could be one guest that gives you not so good reviews, but you have that conversation, it helps you get many more good reviews because you had to have that honest conversation about maybe what you need to fix at your property or something that was off in your property.

[01:03:05] So it is the power of one there and being able to stretch it to everyone. So everybody, go check out OVO Network and DM Louis on LinkedIn. I’m sure he’ll chat you up, and we’re just so thankful for your time. So hopefully we’ll see you soon at another castle and another racetrack.

[01:03:23] Louis: Yeah, because who knows? We’re the other side of the world, so we’ve got to link up again somehow and drink some snakebite and play the billiard game that we were playing, which was very fun as well.

[01:03:35] Sarah: You just told me it’s cheaper to go to the French Alps in Denver, so I’m sold. So it’s fine. So Annette, there we go. That’s all I need to tell my CFO, Annette Grant. But Louis, thank you so much for your time. With that, I am Sarah Karakaian.

[01:03:50] Annette: I am Annette Grant. And together we are–

[01:03:52] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting.