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[00:00:00] Sarah: Hello. Welcome back to another great week. My name is Sarah Karakaian.

[00:00:03] Annette: I am Annette Grant, and together we are–

[00:00:05] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting. 

[00:00:06] Sarah: Let’s kick this episode off like we do every week, and it’s sharing one of you, our loyal listeners, who’s using our hashtag on Instagram #STRShareSunday. If you use it, we will find you, and we will share you here on the pod. Annette, who are we sharing this week?

[00:00:19] Annette: This week we are sharing @littlewolflodge. Again, @littlewolflodge. They are from Crestline, California, and it is a 1930s cabin. I want to go through a couple things that I love. One of them is that they have a fireplace in not only the main gathering area but also in the primary bedroom, and they’re original. I do think that they have installed electric logs, but still an amazing thing that you don’t see very often in the primary bedroom in the short-term rental. So looks very luxurious. 

Another thing that I love that they have done in their listing, I was appreciative of, they said they take organization and aesthetically pleasing very seriously around here, and the picture is of their kitchen utensils. And I love it because they have all black, I’m going to say silverware, but I guess it’s not silverware if it’s all black. But yeah. Wait, I don’t know. Now I’m confused.

[00:01:18] Sarah: Utensils.

[00:01:19] Annette: Okay. Utensils. Thank you. I was like, well, I don’t know. It’s double tasking there. It’s not only showing you that they do care about the aesthetics, but what they’re equipping the kitchen with, because it has all their plates and bowls, all their glassware. I just really liked them weaving that in a simple post. And they just have some really great use, and I’ve not seen this as much in some Instagram profiles. 

They’ve used the mirrors in their home to take reflections of what else is in the room. It’s just something interesting I haven’t really seen used that much, and I really enjoyed it on their feed. So well done @littlewolflodge. Check them out. Give them some love, and use our hashtag so we can give you some love.

[00:02:01] Sarah: Yeah. Really well done. Okay, so we’re going to get into today’s episode, and listeners, get ready. We’re going to interview a woman who left behind her corporate career for hosting, which while it’s hard to do, we’ve heard that story before. But here’s a story you haven’t heard, is she made it her priority to get 70% direct booking. Let’s hear how she did it.

 Today we have Kerri Gibson, who is a CPA who spent the first 22 years of her career in international technology and development for tax and accounting firms. So she likes numbers, and now she’s got this short-term rental, and she’s obsessed, dare we say, with direct bookings and the power of her brand. Kerri, welcome to the show.

[00:02:51] Kerri: Hi, ladies. Thank you so much for having me. This is a highlight. I have a little crush on both of you and your show, so I’m delighted to here.

[00:02:59] Annette: Um, well, we have a crush on your direct booking percentage, and so I think all of our listeners are going to be crushing hard too. But Kerri, could you take us back a little ways to your CPA days and how you’ve transferred into the short-term rental industry? We want to get the background.

[00:03:18] Kerri: Certainly. I think, like many of us in the short-term rental industry, my path here was very winding and not clear, and ended up here unexpectedly. As you said, I started my career as a CPA, which I knew right away wasn’t for me. I love numbers, but the traditional CPA role, so I ended up in technology back when software and financial technology was really new, so I was– they hired me, and they were like, okay, taxes. It’s important. We don’t know what we’re going to do with you, but let’s go. So I worked for a startup for 10 years, and then I joined an international multi-billion dollar company, I think in 2010.

So this was about 10 years into my career, and so going from a small startup to a huge international company was a big deal for me. I was a little overwhelmed at first, but in both parts, both of these jobs, I actually liaised with the government, which to me is the crowning jewel of my corporate career. I love the government relations work so much, which obviously, with everything going on in the industry now with regulation, has helped us out. 

But I actually helped create some of the first bridges between the financial software industry and the IRS Department of Treasury. And I actually was an advisor to the Obama administration when they implemented Obamacare, the ACA Act. It was really, really cool. I got invited to the White House twice to testify on the impact of the implementation of the law into the tax system, which was– I kept my little name plates, of course, Kerri Gibson, Walters Clore, White House invite.

So I worked there for seven years, and it was super interesting and super fun, but super intense. Like I said, international, it was just going 24/7, no time off, waking up for meetings all hours of the night. And along the way, I lost myself. And I just hit a point of burnout. You hear people say burnout, but it’s a real thing. And I knew when I had my moment, I was like, this is not the path that I want my life to end up in. And I knew that, and I had my moment. 

And so it was in January of 2017, on a Friday afternoon, I said, I have to make a change. And I spent my weekend writing my resignation letter, and turned it in on Monday. And I did work out a two-month notice because I was an executive. It was not something you could just walk away from. And so, yeah. That was the end of that milestone, that point of my career. And honestly, when I left, I had zero clue what I was going to do.

[00:05:52] Annette: Oh, I was going to say, did you know like, hey, I went on this vacation. I found the spot. You really had no next step.

[00:05:59] Kerri: No next step. And that was part of what scared me for so long in making the change because I’d been talking about it with my husband and business partner for a few years, and he had encouraged me. We actually worked for the same company. He worked for the Canadian division, and I worked for the US division.

So he knew a lot of the pressure I was under. I had read an article, I think it was in Fast Company, that said, when you go, go, go. When you know you need to make a change, you often have to walk away to give your time to decide what that change is going to be. Because before that, all I had heard was, don’t make a change until you know what you’re going to do.

It’s going to kill your career. And so I was paralyzed a bit by that fear of like, okay, everyone says it’s easier to get a job when you have another job. I knew I didn’t want that. So yeah, that article in Fast Company really inspired me. I actually had it on my bedside for quite a while. But when I left, I just knew something else had to be out there. 

 But my first step was to just rest and relax. The amount of black yoga pants in my laundry for a month after was shocking. So the first thing I did– actually, I had moved to Quebec in 2015 full-time, and I was living in an area where French is the primary language. So out of cultural and social responsibility, I moved to France for three months, and, uh, learned French, which was amazing. 

It’s not a hard way to sacrifice yourself, but that was really cool. I did learn French, and I really focused on that and just resting and healing while I was there. When I came back, still had no idea what I was going to do. And we bought a house that was in the same neighborhood we lived at with the idea of flipping it. That, okay, I’m going to do this. I’ll work with a contractor, and I’m going to think about what comes next, um, while I’m doing this. Because I’m just not a sit around person, at all.

Honestly, I don’t think I Netflix binged at all. Not one time during my sabbatical, which is sad. So yes, I started that. So it was really therapeutic. We were doing the renovation, which I found I loved, but at the same time, I was also doing a lot of self-discovery and exploring. Simon Sinek’s book, Know Your Why, was just like, oh my God. I still listen to it over and over. And then Gary Chapman’s Five Love Languages really helped me sit down and think about myself and who I was, because I had lost my values along the way. Um, my personal values, I was so out of touch with them.

 So at the end of about, I think it was at nine months, the house was done. I was attached to the house, and we live in an area where STR is legal, and so I said, let’s go for it. So we flipped it into a short-term rental. And what I found during this year and the process in getting into STR is that it really aligned with my core values, which was so surprising because I’d taken the time.

But we found we had a knack for design and decor, and for renovating. Taking something old that had such a soul that had just been let go and creating something beautiful out of it with a new character and a new chapter of its life was just really fulfilling. And then I found in the hospitality part– one of my level languages is acts of service. And from my time in corporate of being burned out and knowing how important my vacations were to me, to be able to provide something for people where they could walk in and be like, this is it. This is vacation. I really feel that I can spend time in here.

I feel relaxed right away and create moments with my family and friends. And still, that’s what means the most to me. When people, I guess, say to me, Kerri, I felt like I was really connected with my family, my friends, everything was just what we needed, that fills my heart and soul more than anything, because I know how hard it is to get those moments in our super crazy fast-paced lives.

[00:09:48] Annette: I want to ask a question about numbers because it sounded like you bought your first property with the intention of flipping it. So I’m sure you were doing a lot of the numbers based on flipping this property. You made it sound like it was a very quick decision, like, oh, we’re just going to short-term rent it.

But talk us through, you and your husband and business partner– was it a quick decision? Did you run the numbers of like, wait, we were anticipating flipping it, getting these funds, maybe buying another? Talk us through the numbers and the discussions of putting it on the market versus keeping it yourself.

[00:10:21] Kerri: Yeah. So before we actually even bought the house and before we flipped it, I had my Excel sheets. I was running scenarios left and right. Constantly, while we were renovating it, I was watching the markets to see where prices were at, how much, because we actually got the house for a really, really good deal with someone who had started a renovation. And the house was completely destroyed on the inside, and they were overwhelmed and just wanted out of it. 

So we were able to come in at a really rock bottom price and take it off their hands, actually within hours of it hitting the market. Um, we moved really fast because we had talked about it on and off, but when this one hit the market, I called Phillip, and I was like, we have to buy this house. And he looked at it, and he was like, yes, we do. He is like, call the realtor. And I called the realtor, and we put an offer in front of her within a few hours. And so yeah, it was literally on the market. I saw it at 7:00 PM, and we had it off the market by 7:00 AM the next day.

[00:11:19] Sarah: This is the beauty of chatting with your partner. I know there’s a lot of people listening out there who maybe haven’t dove in yet, and so you always wonder what that first step is, and it’s doing that work of knowing what market you want to be in and why. What does the perfect scenario look like? We call that the buy box. What’s in your buy box? That way when you shared it with your partner, he saw right away, like, oh my gosh, this aligns perfectly with what you and I have been talking about. 

[00:11:44] Kerri: Yes.

[00:11:44] Sarah: I’m sure aesthetically, numbers-wise, the whole thing. And then you get to be that person who you’re always mad at when you put an offer and they beat you to it. You know what I mean? Because you’re there first, and it’s strong.

[00:11:56] Kerri: Yeah. I will say for the first three to four that we bought, yes. People were so mad at us because we got people really– we got a reputation for just being the hoarders of the area.

[00:12:08] Annette: That’s okay. 

[00:12:09] Kerri: Because yeah, there were other people– we’re in a short-term rental-friendly area. It’s a four-season rental. They know the where. I am two kilometers from the second tallest ski mountain in Quebec and five kilometers from the biggest lake in Quebec, which has a huge water sports, boating. It’s amazing. 

[00:12:32] Sarah: I want to put you on the spot. So listeners, we did not ask Kerri these questions before we hopped on, so this is not fair to her, but I want to her. So Kerri, if you don’t know, just say, I’m not sure. So what does your market look like? How are your properties performing? Are they high cash flowing? Was the cash-on-cash return ridiculous? Does it continue to be that way? Any numbers you can give us in terms of actual performance over the past few years?

[00:12:55] Kerri: Gosh. Yeah, so I almost feel it’s not fair just because of where we are. So when I first started renting, it was towards the end of 2018. So we were just starting out in 2018, building our properties, launching in 2019. So we were renting for about a year and a half, and I would say we were newbies. I was learning the market. I was not on my pricing game. I was constantly running my Excel spreadsheets, looking at the competition, really just learning.

And then we had COVID, and here, we were shut down. Completely shut down for three months. So I feel like that first year and a half I was really building up and leading. And I would say our numbers weren’t great at that point because I was still trying to get the credibility, get the experience, and learn the market. So yeah, I didn’t have my pricing strategies in place, and I didn’t know the rotation of the seasonality, and when people booked, and how far in advance.

But then COVID hit. And oh my goodness, because we are a drive to location from Montreal, Quebec City, Toronto, Ottawa, we did not have a day off for two years. So we cash flowed incredibly well. Really, really well. I would say well over a 100%, because our nightly rates were– people were taking whatever day they could get, um, to get out of the city. And there was no such thing as low season and shoulder season.

 We were glad when restrictions started letting up because us and our team, we were just exhausted. And it stayed like that through April of this year. And then we’re seeing the same thing as everybody else. It’s like the brakes hit, and we’re right back into the trends of pre-COVID, which most of my experience in that is coming back because I had looked at all the tourism sites and gathered all the data there, which is how I was trying to figure my own strategies when we first started.

So I’m able to look back and see, okay. Because at first, in May, I was like, oh my god, oh my god. Who’s going back to the corporate world? We’re going to have to rock-paper-scissor this one out. And it’s just started picking up. So I think for us, we are back in what’s going to be a regular flow of reservations, and timing, and shoulder season, and low season. And we have to learn that. I have to adopt my cashflow strategies. I have to adopt my perception for when reservations are going to come in.

All of that has to change. And I’m looking back at historical data from the tourism sites to really help me with that. And that’s really just been the past month where I was like, okay, where I started digging those numbers out again, just to give myself a better feeling. And it’s true. We’re mirroring. So like right now, we’re heading into summer, and reservations, the past two weeks have just been nonstop. So we’re picking back up, and we’re starting to get back our US and international guests as well. So we cash flowed really well, but I don’t think it’s a fair comparison going forward. I’m going to learn a lot in the next year. So let’s chat again this time next year.

[00:15:50] Annette: I want to unpack something you said really quickly before we carry on. You said something, that you go on to tourism sites to look at historical data, I think is what you said there. Can you explain to us what you’re looking for? 

[00:16:02] Kerri: Definitely. Yes. The government sites often out there, the tourism board, so I use Statistics Canada. I use Statistics Quebec, and then Statistics Eastern Townships, which is the region that we’re located in. So federal, province, and then region. And so because of my knowledge of government organizations from my whole entire career, I’ve always worked with the IRS Department of Treasury, I know that there’s all this data that’s out there, and I knew it had to be the same for this industry. So before we even bought the first house to flip, I was looking at bed and breakfast. Everybody’s dream.

Though that business case made no sense anyway, I sliced and diced it in the community we were in. So that’s when I started going out and looking like, what is working? Um, once we were flipping this house. So that’s the first place I went, was to tourism Canada, and then into tourism Quebec, and there is a ton of data out there, and it was, especially at the Quebec level, really well broken out not only by accommodation but accommodation type, from five-star hotel down to rest at camping.

So I was able to get right in there for our region and our type. So there is more information out there, I think, than people are aware of, because this is how budgets are set in government. They have to make their case just like anyone else. And so to prove their case, they have to have the numbers. And so those numbers are available to anybody if you just want to start digging.

[00:17:30] Annette: Kerri. 

[00:17:31] Sarah: This is good.

[00:17:33] Annette: Yeah. I want to hang out with you, but then I’m like, oh, what’s going on with your head? I’m like, we’re going to all the stats. No, that’s a great– I just wanted to bring that– you just glossed over it because it’s part of your activity, but I wanted our listeners to know that too. 

So we flip this house, we hold onto it, your cash– I know you also said your husband is no longer working corporate. Take us through after that house goes live. What are the next steps to you guys completely changing yet pivoting your whole lives?

[00:18:05] Kerri: Certainly. So we took it live, and right after we bought it, another chalet came on the market. And so our next series of houses, our next two after that actually never even hit the market because people started calling us and saying, the neighbors and others, hey, we’re going to sell this chalet. Do you want to buy it? And we jumped on both of them right away.

When we jumped on them, I had no idea. So all of a sudden, I went from having one that was on the market to two right behind it. And in this time, my husband changed jobs and actually moved to Vancouver. So I’m prepping all of these chalets, including our house that we once lived in for rental. So we had our chalet, and the one that we had just done, and then one that was in okay shape that I was able to furnish at the time, and another one that was another complete disaster. When I took down the first wall, squirrel party for years. Yeah. My husband was working in Vancouver.

I was doing the back and forth, but I was really focused on getting as many properties as we could up and going, because here’s the thing, the other place where we’re at, it’s a sound investment. I already knew that because where we’re located, between the mountains and the lakes, and it’s one of the most known vacation areas in Canada, I’m always going to be able to sell these houses.

Especially, I was buying them at rock bottom prices because they were in horrible shape. So with me doing the work and working with contractors, we slowly built up to an inventory of four over the next three years. And then my husband moved back to Montreal. His business, the company he worked for transferred him back there, and COVID hits. And so we moved back into one of our chalets, and he was just so unhappy. And the opportunity came up. The fallout is they decided to sell the branch of the business he was working for, and they offered him a buyout package, and he jumped on it.

[00:20:06] Annette: That’s awesome.

[00:20:07] Kerri: Yeah. So he jumped on it, and so the thought was, you know what, he’s going to spend the next six months to a year. We’re going to ride out COVID and see how it goes. And we acquired another chalet during COVID, as it was going on. So that was number six. And he and I actually fully renovated that one top to bottom by ourselves, because in addition to being a finance person, he’s also a very handy person.

He says if he had a career do-over, he would be an architect. But he learned how to do everything. And some of his friends are in contracting and construction, and they really mentored us. And of course, we hire out electric and plumbing, but as far as all of the work of just building and decorating, the non-technical stuff, we really jumped in and did that together, and we found that we worked pretty well together, our design aesthetic at that point. 

Like you said, we’ve been doing it three or four years. He was always having input to what I was doing. And this is not all hunky dory. We had some pretty big explosions where it was like, I’m not giving in. This is what I want. But we’ve also found when we compromise our two ideas together is where we get the beauty of what we’ve done. But yeah, so after that one, we’re like, we think we can do this? To be very upfront, though, the houses were– that was the beginning of COVID. 

We were just starting to cashflow because of COVID, and we knew that we had to make a significant shift in our lives and how we spent money because we were, for the first time in our lives, going to have no regular salary coming in. So that required us to redo a personal look too of like, how do we live our lives personally? Where do we spend our money in order to we can give this a shot? 

So we did a lot of adjusting of how we spend money, where we put our money on the extras that we have, those types of things. We like to say we traded money for happiness because we truly did, but it has come with a fair amount of sacrifice, and learning, and starting over in some ways, but it’s come with a lot of happiness, and leading, and creating our own path.

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[00:22:04] Sarah: Speaking of money, really quick, because we have so many other questions to ask you too about where you’re at now. But when it came to buying all these houses, how were you doing that financially? Was it because of the lucrative corporate careers? Were you guys paying all cash? Did you have a private money lender? How did you guys do that?

[00:22:22] Kerri: So the first couple were cash. We both did have lucrative corporate careers. He was still working. So the first two we bought with cash and paid for the renovations out of pocket. Again, we save on that significantly by me being involved. And then Philip was also working on the weekends when he lived and was here.

So we were able to save a significant amount doing that. We are now at the point where we have a combination of bank lenders and private investors. But we’ve paid off all the private investors, so now we have two that are fully paid for out of pocket. And then we have four that we fully paid for the renovations, but we have a mortgage. We put 20% down, and then we have a mortgage on the rest.

For us, going forward, because we are out of the personal cash that we want to invest in this, we don’t want to touch retirement and those types of things, so we’ll either be pulling equity out of the houses or going the private investment route. We have people all the time asking if they can invest. We’ll have to think about both of them, to be straightforward. I love that we drive and make a 100% of the decisions ourselves.

And anytime you bring in a partner, no matter who they are, family, friend, that dynamic shifts. Phillip’s actually out right now finishing up the last bathroom renovation for one of our chalets. And then the six that we have on the market are just rocking and rolling, complete cash flowing now. No more renovations. So we have some big financial decisions to make this year as well.

[00:23:50] Annette: I’m going to ask a very naive question here. Your chalets, is there something that defines it as a chalet? Is there something about the home that “it’s now a chalet”?

[00:24:02] Kerri: Yes, there is. 

[00:24:03] Annette: What is that? Help me.

[00:24:04] Kerri: It’s architecturally. So the design of the back half of the house is sloped. It’s like the back half of the house is an A-frame, but the front is not. So our houses, the back is a 100% slope down to the ground, and then the front is just a slope to the first level windows.

[00:24:21] Annette: Okay. And would you buy outside of a chalet, or is that in your buy box like, it has to be a chalet?

[00:24:28] Kerri: It is not in the buy box. So it was at the beginning because we actually live in the neighborhood. We don’t live next to any of them, so we’re close to all of them. So literally, we can ride our e-bike if we need to go service the chalet, which is really nice. My team is really close.

 But it is not a requirement anymore. And in fact, we’re looking at different options right now. Right now the properties here are so hot because of COVID. And while the rest of the market’s cooling, it’s not here. We almost have to go out of our buy box and redefine our brand and how we make it fit in because our brand’s really become quite well known in the area. So if we did something else that didn’t align with it, we’d almost have to start a different company.

[00:25:11] Annette: That’s what I was going to ask because it is your brand name. So let’s talk about, you’ve got these listings up. Your direct booking, let’s get into that a little bit. Did you even know about direct booking when you got started? Were you just on the OTAs? Let’s spill the tea on how you got to the 70%, because I know our listeners want to know, and we want to know. 

[00:25:34] Kerri: So I started out on the OTAs like everybody, because at first, I had no idea if this was even going to be a thing. I’d done all my research to see. But yes, I started out on the OTAs, plus I was renovating the chalets. I did not have the capacity or the bandwidth to even really think about it. I don’t even know how I knew how, but I knew direct booking was an option from the get go.

So I was like, first I’m going to see if this is even a thing before I pay any attention to this concept of direct book. When I knew it was going to be a thing, I immediately became intent on direct book because one thing, coming from my corporate background, you don’t want to ever build your house on someone else’s lane.

I know that is such an overused phrase right now, but it is so important. If you build something good and successful, and then someone else comes along and says, I’m going to use that for something else, you’ve got no recourse except the unpack it. And so I fully, 100%, believe in guiding your own destiny and building your own business.

Even when I was in corporate, when I was looking at new products to develop, I was looking at the buy build partner. To build, you might partner to get you off and get you to market faster, but at the same time, you need to be building to have your own solution that you own because at any point in time, any of the OTAs, but most notably Airbnb, they can switch up their strategy at any point in time, and you’re held hostage to that. 

Like right now, they’ve got this huge focus on going back to rooms in people’s houses, back to their roots, so they’re saying. And so you never ever know. And the vacation rental industry is changing so much. Airbnb’s going to react the way they’re going to react, and they can also decide at any point in time to pull your listing for, honestly, no good reason, just based off of word of mouth of someone else. And so I just refused to put my heart and soul into building something that someone else has the right to take away. So yeah, that was just firmly instilled in me, is that I needed to own my own business.

[00:27:33] Annette: What were the steps? Take us back to you starting this. Give our listeners some digestible next steps for them. They are only on Airbnb right now. What would you advise them to do? What can they do that’s digestible for them to take action?

[00:27:49] Kerri: So a direct book strategy is not just about having a website. I want to emphasize that because a lot of people, I think, they’ll build a website, and they will come, and that’s simply not the case. There is a lot that goes into the strategy of having it. Not only do you need to have a website, you also need to have a verified Google Business Profile.

You need to start your social strengths, and you need to have good content that will drive all that in. Now, back to your question that said where you start, that’s all very overwhelming. I’ve been doing this for five years, and there’s still steps that I haven’t completely finished and going through.

So I would say the first thing to do is to write out your set of requirements of what you need and a digital presence. And I’ll be honest, a lot of these things I got, I was like, I know I need a website. I know I need a way to collect payment. I know I need a reservation system that goes with it.

But do you know how I built most of my requirements because I didn’t know that much about direct booking sites? I went to all of the vendor sites and started reading about what they did, and I built a spreadsheet that had all of the different capabilities that they had on there. And then I identified the vendor, and then I was able to align with where I knew I wanted to take my business with complete independence.

So I knew I wanted to be independent of the OTAs, that I wanted to be able to provide guests a digital experience, and that I needed a channel manager and a PMS. Those were my basics right there. And so when I was going through that, it was very young market. This was 2018. So the most important thing to me at that point was roadmap.

I have to say, if I was reevaluating right now, there’s some really powerful tools out there that my process, I think would be a bit different. But I ended up going– for me, the vendor I chose, I have not regretted. And the biggest reason I haven’t regretted them is because they checked all my initial boxes.

PMS, CMS, website, and payment processing, and reservation system. And they continue to innovate and release updates. And the other thing is, for me, customer support. They rock. They were also the best during my interview process and my demo processes with answering questions and getting there. And they haven’t let me down on that. 

So I think the first thing, because there’s so many options out there, is getting familiar with what’s out there, creating that list, and then identifying where you want to take your business. For me, this was going to be my full-time business income where I was going. So I needed something that was going to be a very robust tool and that had a very robust marketplace eventually.

 My website, when I started, was very basic. I mean, it was like, here’s the properties, book. There was nothing fluffy about it at all. And you can’t start fluffy. Fluffy comes with time. All of the activities that go around it, the telling of the story. All of that comes with time. But the most important I thing I did after that that I think gets overlooked a lot is getting verified your Google Business Profile. 

That establishes you as, I own this land. I own this property. I’m a real business. And so then, because any website you’re going to get, it’s going to need to be verified by Google, so getting that process out of the way, you’re already an established business, especially if you can start getting reviews there, even before you have a website asking guests that were very near and dear, hey, will you go leave me a review, helped out a lot. And then I would say just starting the social streams. And that was– I had a Facebook page for six months. My husband was like, this is ridiculous.

[00:31:38] Annette: That’s okay. Yeah. Step by step. 

[00:31:41] Sarah: So I’ve got a ton of questions for you that I hope our listeners are also asking, so I can satiate them. Okay. Let’s talk about Google. You have more than one property. Do you have Google for business for each individual property, or is it for your umbrella brand? Start with that. What did you decide was right for you?

[00:32:00] Kerri: So I have two Google Business Profiles. Three chalets are on one street, and three chalets are in another. So the three on each road that are close by are under one umbrella. The reason that is is that I personally would have a different one for each chalet if I could, but Google wouldn’t let me because they were so close together.

They were like, no, no, no, this is the same business. So I was able to do different ones. And the reason I would do them all differently if I could is because that’s how many times you show up on the Google map. When you type in Google, chalet for rent in Orford, I would have six properties showing up instead of two.

[00:32:39] Sarah: Interesting. Yeah, I like that. And then when it comes to– Yes, you had your channel manager, and your digital presence, and a really basic website, and a way to collect money, but you have a 70% direct booking rate. And you said that you were cash flowing like crazy, so your occupancy was up there. What do you think the biggest driver for conversions were for you? Was it inviting past guests to come back? Was it the Google search and just having the chalet be in the name? What was that thing that converted lookers into bookers?

[00:33:11] Kerri: We have a 40% return guest rate. The lowest hanging fruit anytime you build a direct book site is return guests and referral guests. So those are people that are more than likely going to book. All they need is a place is to pay now, book now. So the fanciness doesn’t matter to them because they’ve either experienced it or they’ve heard from someone that’s raving about it and you have to experience it. 

I think the next thing after that converted was our Google Business Profile because people were just going and looking from everywhere, and they were typing chalets for rent or chalets for rent Easter Townships. And at the time, we were one of the very few Google verified that was not a hotel, and all of the hotels were closed down. 

 So the only thing that could rent then was standalone establishments like short-term rentals. So that was definitely a huge converter for us. Then as I built out our social, one thing that COVID allowed me to do was I collaborated with micro-influencers in the area who created content.

And I say micro-influencers because they specialize in the region. So it’s not a huge influencer that has people from all over the world following whose chances of ending up right here are pretty slim to none. So some local influencers. We’re an outdoor area, so skiing and outdoor sports. We’re dog-friendly. People with dogs.

So collaborating with them. And they came in, and they created the content. They created the post, the socials. We created the experience. So that’s how we actually skyrocketed our social, was with micro-influencers. And the stick rate is really high because they’re micro-influencers, and they’re people that actually are interested in the brand.

 So you’ll see a lot of times people, after an influencer or giveaway, your followings will skyrocket, and then they plummet. We don’t have that because we tend to stick locally. I’m branching that strategy out into Ontario and New England right now as people are full back into their travel habits. So that has been– I know there’s a lot of disagreement out there about influencers, but absolutely, for me, they work. And again, it’s micro-influencers. It’s people who speak to your niche. 

[00:35:34] Annette: So the listeners, we’re hearing that, but give us an idea of is it 2,000 followers? Is it 10,000? What are you defining? Where did you see that success? Can you give us actual numbers around micro?

Yes. So I do everything from 3,000. I had a journalist who does dog-friendly content creation here this past weekend. Three months ago, I had over a 100,000 followers. Actually, was hooked up through our local tourism. They connected me with her. So if you guys want to talk about getting involved in local tourism boards. So I would say my sweet spot, though, for where they hit is probably around the 50, 60,000 is where I’ll hit most. But honestly, I’ve had some at 15 and 20,000 that also did really, really well. Thanks for defining that because 50 to 60, when I think micro, I think more of the 3,000, not the 50, 60.

[00:36:28] Sarah: But also I think micro comes into two. Who is their reach? So yes, the number of followers, and of course, that engagement rate. But also, for us, if it’s Columbus tourism or Columbus dog content, that micro, in terms of reach, it sounds like you were super concentrated on literally your area.

[00:36:51] Kerri: And my niche. I know who my guests are and why they’re coming to me. I have to say, on my first collaboration, I was nervous as heck. But I’m like, what am I giving up? A couple of nights stay? And it was amazing. They still create content for me now. For me, there’s a dual purpose when I do a collaboration, and it is either reach of their social or their content.

They create beautiful visuals. And I think that’s one of the reasons our website also converts very well now, past Google and all, is because we have beautiful pictures and video on there that we’ve invested in over time. You could put the most beautiful scene in the world in front of me, and it would look like a hippopotamus took the picture. So I know I can’t do it, so–

[00:37:34] Annette: Stick to the spreadsheets, Kerri. Stick to the spreadsheets.

[00:37:37] Kerri: Right. Exactly. I know.

[00:37:40] Annette: Yeah. You’re not snapping any photos. You just said you know your client and you know what they’re looking for. Let’s talk about your brand and who wants to enjoy the Hygge.

[00:37:50] Kerri: I put a lot of thought into who I wanted to serve because in our area, we have everything from value to high-end lux, and neither one of those speaks to me. In fact, the word luxury just makes my skin crawl. It makes me think of high maintenance people who you can never please.

I know that’s not it, but that’s how I feel, and I wanted to avoid that word in my marketing as much as I possibly can. But I knew I wanted to look for people who– for where they were staying was as much of the experience of the vacation. It’s not just a place to sleep, but a place they intend to hang out.

 People who want to enjoy the outdoors, and whatever realm that speaks, because not only do we have a ton of outdoor activities, we also have beaches. We have amazing Nordic spas. We have live music. But people who being in the outdoors is good for their soul, where they want to stay as an experience, they do tend– we’re in the upper 75 percentile of the market as far as pricing goes. 

So they’re not price sensitive, and they tend to be people with either no kids or older kids because they’re coming to do an activity, get out and about. We’re in the mountains. Pushing a stroller up the biking trail or up the– is not a whole lot of fun. So we tend to start seeing people in the middle part of their career who are high stress, getting away, and the outsides is their go-to.

[00:39:21] Sarah: That’s such a hot tip, Kerri, for everyone listening, because I feel like we feel like we have to– you know what I’m saying? We feel like we have to use certain trigger words to get someone’s attention. But it’s like you don’t want just anyone’s attention because if they come and stay with you and they don’t have a good time, that reflects on your reviews, whether it’s on Google or the OTA. So because I stayed at places or I– back in the day, when we used to do consulting, and people would use the word luxury in their listing, and you’re like, this is so far away from luxury. It’s not bad. Sometimes it was bad.

[00:39:51] Annette: But you could just tell they were using the word. 

[00:39:53] Sarah: Yeah. It’s like, this is not luxury. And so you’re going to attract these people, and it’s not going to be a good situation for either party. And I love that you’re giving permission to say you don’t have to be luxury in order to be successful. You can be who you are. Attract who wants to stay there, and it’s going to be a match made in heaven, and they’re going to love it.

[00:40:11] Kerri: I love the way you say that. Yes. That is 100% the case. I think exactly what you’re saying, one of the keys to being successful in hospitality is being authentic to who you are and the experience you want to provide. And don’t shy away from it. I’m very clear on what we do and don’t provide, and what the experience is going to be. 

And if I’m talking to someone on the phone or emailing, and they’re asking for an experience that I don’t provide, I have a very good relationship with all the other short-terms around here. I will happily refer them to someone else because I want them to have an amazing time. And just because I’m not a fit this time doesn’t mean three vacations down the line I am not the right fit for the group that they’re having come. But yeah, the last thing I want is a guest to come and to fall short because we were not clear on who we are and what we provide.

[00:41:02] Annette: What don’t you? What are the most common things you’re like, no, don’t provide that? Not going to, and they do choose someone else.

[00:41:10] Kerri: Spas. Outdoor hot tubs.

[00:41:13] Annette: Ooh, none of the chalets have hot tubs or spas?

[00:41:16] Kerri: No. 

[00:41:17] Sarah: She’s still killing it. 

[00:41:19] Annette: I want to know. What’s the spreadsheet say though if you installed them?

[00:41:23] Sarah: But sometimes it doesn’t matter. 

[00:41:25] Annette: I’m just asking. Yeah. What does the spreadsheet say?

[00:41:26] Kerri: The spreadsheet says that I will make more revenue. The off spreadsheet says I will lose the credibility I have in the community and with the local government to create an experience that honors the culture and the spirit here.

[00:41:44] Annette: That’s why everything doesn’t fit in a spreadsheet. I love that.

[00:41:47] Kerri: It doesn’t. It doesn’t. And this is another thing I am very clear on. We’re in nature, but we’re a community of 288 ski chalets that were built in the 1960s. It’s a very iconic place in Quebec. Everybody knows the chalet boat, the place with the orange roof. So when you look at our pictures, you’ll see everything has the orange chalet roof. You’re going to see your neighbors.

You’re going to hear your neighbors if everyone’s outside having a barbecue at the same time. And yeah, you can expect to have a community experience because we’re very walk and dog-friendly. Everybody’s always out. So it is a little community, and we choose not to have hot tubs because of the noise factor with it being so close.

And many of our chalets, one step aside, also has a retired person who lives next door that doesn’t want to hear someone who, while not partying at 11:00 PM, is out in the hot tub, is loud, having a beer, talking with their people, and noise escalates. And we’re very clear. And when people ask, we say we don’t have spas, and when they ask why not, we tell them that. 

They’re like, oh, I get that. That makes sense. And I would say that’s probably– we do have people say, but we really want to spa. And I’ll say, great. And I will tell them people that I know that do have spas, but I’ll also tell you those people have neighbors that make their lives not fun as soon as there’s too much noise at 11:00 PM.

[00:43:06] Sarah: Well, you said you left your other job to find happiness. So also it’s like, yes, you’ll make more money, but if that impacts your happiness too, and being a business owner, it’s like, heck yeah. You get to make that decision. And you know what you’re missing out on, but you don’t care. You know what I mean? Those are the perks of being a business owner that I don’t know that we lean into enough. 

[00:43:26] Kerri: I agree. 

[00:43:27] Sarah: We could talk business all day. I have one– it’s a big question because it could be a whole episode in itself. Talk to us about how you leverage your email marketing. How big of a component is that for you and your conversions, inviting guests back? And if you could, just real quick, what do those sequences look like after a guest stays? Do you touch them every month? What does that look like?

[00:43:47] Kerri: So to be fully transparent, it needs to be bigger. We’re really focused on– right now, we have around a 1,000 email addresses. The biggest way that we have been collecting is through cards that we leave in the chalet that says, sign up for our email list and get 10% off, and they can leave their email and we sign them up.

 Or they were already guests, or they come to our website. They can, of course, sign up on our website. We have the Subscribe Here. But really with the cards, we’re trying to get at the OTA guests or the guests that didn’t book that was there. But we are in the process, hopefully, it goes live next week, of launching Enso. And one of its components is the email collection, like a StayFi. So really being able to elevate that.

Right now, we email them once a month, and we don’t like the spam. So our once a month email has a chalet spotlight. So we talk about something we’ve been doing with the chalets. We have a local activity spotlight. So we highlight whether it’s the cross country ski trails are open or, hey, boat season has started, whatever it may be. And then we highlight a local business, something to do near the chalet. 

So they really feel like they’re getting a taste of the region because, for us, they come here for the region, not just for the chalet. And so the more we can talk about their more inclusive experience, the better it is. We do email once in a while when we have a promo or a special, but I want to grow that email list, and I want to be more consistent with emails because it’s not the biggest conversion. It could be. It converts when we send a promo.

[00:45:23] Sarah: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:24] Kerri: But yeah, I can 100% be doing more of that. We’ve been collecting email addresses for two years now, and so that is one of our strategies this year is to increase that. Because that’s the only thing that you own, your email, your podcast. Everything else is owned by someone else that can choose to do something different. They can choose to deactivate your account.

I have an amazing friend who provides the candles for our chalets. Over 10,000 followers. She still doesn’t know why Instagram killed her account. She had to start all over. So your email address, your podcasts, your owned assets are really important, and I need to do more with building those up.

[00:46:03] Sarah: You’re crushing it, Kerri.

[00:46:05] Annette: What is your paid marketing budget? What percentage of your revenue are you spending on that?

[00:46:11] Kerri: So I’m spending $500 a month right now. 

[00:46:14] Annette: Oh, she gave us straight. Love it. 

[00:46:16] Kerri: Yeah. $500 a month split equally right now between Google and Meta, Facebook, Instagram. And right now it’s high because I’m leading into– right now is summer season, people still booking for that, or last minute, but we’re also starting to get bookings for ski season. That is the other benefit to the new planning, the new ebbs and flows of post COVID travel, is people are getting more comfortable with booking further out. So we are having more demand for ski season that we’ve never had before. I only took reservation six months in advance. I recently opened the calendar for nine months in advance because of that reason.

 It’ll go down during low booking season. September, October, and April, May, I have learned– for reservation, I’ll probably take it down. Oh, and one thing that we just did, I’m super excited about is we just took out a print ad in one of the biggest health and wellness magazines in Quebec. That was– 

[00:47:09] Annette: You’re going to have to let us know how that goes. 

[00:47:12] Kerri: Yeah, so I am going to be able to because I have a QR code on the ad inside and then on the emails that they send out for all of their– because we’re on the front cover, on the inside. That was quite an investment. But it’s our target market. It’s one of our official business partners. And so even from all the email communications that– it all goes to the same landing page you can only get to from clicking on a link or QR code. So I’m going to be able to track whether or not that works. 

[00:47:35] Annette: Exactly your return on investment. Love that. 

[00:47:39] Sarah: That’s amazing.

[00:47:39] Annette: You were just very diligent on doing your due diligence before you chose the direct booking, your PMS, CMS. Who did you choose? People are probably like, she just said the vendor. Who is the vendor?

[00:47:50] Kerri: Lodgify.

[00:47:51] Annette: Okay. We want to share that because I know they’re like, wait a second. You did all this research, and you’re beaming about it. So we want to make sure that we gave that.

[00:47:58] Kerri: I don’t regret my choice with them. There’s so many like Hostfully, and so many that have come along since that I know are absolutely crushing it too that I would definitely be giving a fair eye to if I were making the decision today. But Lodgify is the hub of our business. And so for me to untangle Lodgify, for me to use a software, it has to plug in to Lodgify. And right now, I would have to back everything out. It would just be a nightmare. And my experience with them is so great. I have no reason to leave them, to even look anywhere else.

[00:48:30] Annette: Yeah. No, but I love what you just said because a lot of people want to jump platform to platform, and you got to sink your teeth in, learn it, and then, like you said, untangling, it can’t be fun. The third and last question is like, we need to come hang out and see these chalets in person. We’re super thankful that you’ve been on the show, but we need to bring ourselves to you now, since you’ve shared our time with us.

[00:48:53] Sarah: Is that a question or a demand? 

[00:48:54] Annette: It’s both. It’s both.

[00:48:57] Kerri: I would love to have you guys and your families, so anytime. You just let me know, and we’ll find you a chalet.

[00:49:06] Sarah: Let’s get other people–

[00:49:07] Annette: We’ll book direct.

[00:49:08] Sarah: Yes. Look at other people booking direct. Where can people reach out to you if they want to talk more business? They want to book a stay in this– I don’t even like outdoors and I’m interested in seeing your area. So where can they find out more about you?

[00:49:21] Kerri: Hey, Sarah, we have wineries too. We’re on the wine route. We’re on the cheese route. We’re on the French [Inaudible] route. So like I said, it’s not just an outdoor– I didn’t hit on those at all. We have everything.

[00:49:33] Annette: I mean, Kerri, you’ve got impressive direct booking, but I feel like you are in the sweet spot of world.

[00:49:37] Sarah: No, and now I want to invest in Kerri. Kerri, you knew what you were doing. So yeah.

[00:49:43] Kerri: Just to add this little icing on top of the cake, our region was named one of the top 52 places to visit in the world by the New York Times this year.

[00:49:51] Annette: Congrats.

[00:49:51] Kerri: We are pretty amazing. So come. Come see us in the Eastern Township. So I am so passionate about this, and I love, love, love helping others. So please, anyone, don’t hesitate to send me questions. There’s our website, and so our email address is on there, so it’s just info@chalets. Chalets with an S. Hygge, H-Y-G-G-E. I’m sorry, I’m saying it in French in my head, trying to do it in, uh, English. And then our Instagram handle’s the same, @chalets_hygge. And then same for Facebook and YouTube as well. And so hopefully, soon Pinterest. It’s my new, uh, passion, my new interest.

[00:50:32] Sarah: Yes. Pinterest is a good interest. So we will, of course, put all those in the show notes, listeners. So if you’re driving, if you’re on the treadmill, if you’re in the shower, don’t you worry. 

[00:50:40] Annette: If you’re cleaning toilets at your short-term rental. 

[00:50:41] Sarah: Cleaning toilets, folding fitted sheets. I hope you’re folding them the way– 

[00:50:45] Annette: Wrestling with a duvet.

[00:50:47] Sarah: Annette and I showed you on Instagram. We had those in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time. With that, I am Sarah Karakaian.

[00:50:53] Annette: I’m Annette Grant, and together we are–

[00:50:54] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting. 

[00:50:55] Sarah: We’ll talk to you next time.