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[00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, welcome back for another great week. My name is Sarah Karakaian.

[00:00:03] Annette: I am Annette Grant, and together we are–

[00:00:05] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting. 

[00:00:06] Sarah: Let’s kick off this episode like we do every week, and that’s sharing one of you, our loyal listeners who’s using our hashtag #STRShareSunday. Annette, who are we sharing this week?

[00:00:14] Annette: This week we are sharing @hillsidehouse_shenandoah. And again, that’s @hillsidehouse_shenandoah. I just want to go– this is a cozy little nook. I want to shout out their dog, Luna.

[00:00:31] Sarah: Luna.

[00:00:31] Annette: They have a thread throughout their whole, um, Instagram with their dog. And I just absolutely love that, so I have to give–

[00:00:39] Sarah: They’re pet-friendly too, so that makes sense.

[00:00:42] Annette: Yeah. You can pull in the heartstrings of the pet lovers. But I want to go through one thing. I love the cadence of their feed. They go through– they do, um, five-star reviews. They do a reel of the area. They do some action shots of what you can do with the home. So they’ve done a nice job of just doing a mix. It feels like a little formulaic, but it’s good, of what they’re posting about. They also are getting people really excited. They’re getting ready to build three places on the property, so they have a mockup of what’s to come.

And so I love them foreshadowing, getting things ready for people, knowing that they’ve got more places coming soon. The other thing I want to highlight is in their bio. They say it right there. Book directly and save, and then they have their link. So I think giving that call to action of say, why would someone want to book directly?

So they have booked directly and save. So that’s like, oh, if I just book direct, I can actually save money. So I think you can’t just say book direct. You’ve got to give them a reason why they should book direct. So I love that they have that there, their call to action, in their bio, so people know immediately.

[00:01:54] Sarah: Absolutely. So great job Hillside House. Listeners, give them a follow. Share some love on the gram.

[00:02:01] Annette: And use our hashtag. And also they have this really cute green bathroom sink that I’m feeling.

[00:02:06] Sarah: I love green.

[00:02:07] Annette: Uh, yeah, it’s good.

[00:02:08] Sarah: Green is so good. All right. So today we’re going to talk about parting ways with team members.

[00:02:16] Annette: Ooh. Yeah.

[00:02:18] Sarah: It’s never easy

[00:02:19] Annette: Yeah.

[00:02:20] Sarah: And I start off the episode, I feel like Annette thought maybe I was being a little too vague. So hang tight through the episode, and we get to the, um, nitty gritty of what actually went down. But yeah, letting go of team members is never easy no matter how long you’ve been with them.

[00:02:35] Annette: Years. Ooh. 

[00:02:37] Sarah: Years or months. Either way, it’s never

[00:02:39] Annette: They’re all hard, especially when they’re the backbone. Well, no, it’s always hard.

[00:02:43] Sarah: So we’re going to unpack, um, a situation that we’ve recently gone through, and we hope it serves one of you out there and helps you with a difficult situation. All right. So this is a difficult conversation, but it’s one that it’s really important that we share here on the podcast, so anyone listening, maybe you’re going through this right now, maybe you’re thinking about it, might be in your near future, or maybe everything is great right now and you’re like, this doesn’t applied to me.

But I assure you, if you get into business, there’s going to be moments where it’s time to part ways with people on your team, and it really doesn’t matter if they’ve been on your team for a short amount of time or a really long time, but we’ve had to part ways with some of our team members recently, and we thought we would share as much as we can here in the podcast and with what we learned, what we did right, what we didn’t do well, and just discuss it here in the pod.

[00:03:35] Annette: I’m actually going to quote– I went to have coffee with the developer that I used to do all of my co-hosting with, and I do want to quote him because I thought it was the truth because we were talking about, um, turnover on your team, and he was like, it sucks. It always sucks. If they suck, it still sucks. If they’re good, it sucks. It just always sucks. And I was like, oh, it just sucks. You know why?

Because we’re humans, and we care about each other. While it’s happening and it sucks, but also, uh, as someone that has been let go, it also ends up being a really good thing. Because if it’s not a fit, it’s not a fit. And people can just move on to the next thing.

[00:04:21] Sarah: And I think we can say that with confidence. You and I have been let go in the past, and we’ve let people go. People let go of– you know what I mean? There’s a lot of moving on.

[00:04:30] Annette: Chapters end.

[00:04:31] Sarah: Chapters end, and it’s okay. And it’s natural. This episode is going to offer you, though, some insight into our personal recent experience and what we learned from that, and hopefully it gives you just a little bit of insight into maybe what’s normal, what is challenging for us is probably challenging for everyone else. And just deep dive into it a little bit.

[00:04:52] Annette: Let’s do it.

[00:04:52] Sarah: All right. So first of all, I think the most important piece of advice we can give to everyone, and this goes for maybe you’re a co-host and you’re working with an owner, obviously, we can all relate to this from a guest standpoint, but also from our team, is to not make decisions when you’re emotional.

[00:05:09] Annette: I joked around earlier, before the episode, and said to Sarah, so we should just never make decisions. Anyways.

[00:05:16] Sarah: No, but when you’re really heightened, when maybe there’s a disagreement that’s happening, or you’re frustrated because of repeated behavior, whatever that is or looks like for you, and you’re just seeing red, that is not a good time to call that person, or to message that person, or to communicate with that person because you’re going to say things that you don’t mean, or maybe not in the tone you want to convey it in. Nothing productive is going to come out of that. 

[00:05:41] Annette: Agreed. Step one.

[00:05:44] Sarah: Step one. I then would lean on whether it’s your business partner, your life partner, a friend, maybe your pillow, just scream into it. Get that emotion out. Say what you want to say, write it down, perhaps. I’m not saying to bottle it up, but you definitely don’t want to share that with the person that maybe is causing the emotion. Okay. Next on is, here’s what was difficult for us in our recent situation was how much we respected the fact that while there was some disconnect happening, that there is money going into this person’s account. We had a job that was putting food on their table.

[00:06:28] Annette: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:29] Sarah: It was a big part of their life revenue. And so when you decide that it’s no longer a good fit or you know it’s coming, I think the thing that makes it so hard is, yes, we’re human, and here’s why. It’s because we are exchanging money for those services. And so you know it’s going to be a big thing in their life if you decide to call it quits, if they’ve not made the decision, you are making that decision. And that’s hard.

[00:06:52] Annette: Mm-hmm. But you can also, a, if they’re a vendor, if you have a contract with them ahead of time, that’s something– again, all these things– always have the end in mind at the beginning. Um, and so that’s something that you can put in their contract. If you have open invoices from them, of course, you want to square up with those. But I think there’s a way to definitely handle that, and that’s planning that ahead of time.

[00:07:16] Sarah: And I think you can also ask yourself as you are contemplating ending a relationship with a team member is, the reason you want to end the relationship, is it changeable? Are we putting in enough effort to see if there’s a way to work things out? I think it’s in an relationship, a marriage, a life partnership, business partnership, and a vendor or employee relationship is, are we supplying all the tools that they need?

For example, here, are there training videos we could make to really clarify, um, anything that’s a misstep? Whether it’s a clean, or an inspection, or what you expect from an operator to deliver KPIs. Is there a disconnect, and is it something we can fix? Can we change that? 

[00:08:01] Annette: Is it fixable? 

[00:08:01] Sarah: Is it fixable? Pictures. Whether it’s videos, training videos, pictures of ideal setups in your back of house space. This is exactly– I always get that– we went to this conference, listeners, several years ago, and this stuck out like a sore thumb, but the presenter was essentially talking about this very subject, and she had a piece of paper and a pencil on all of our chairs, and she asked us to draw the picture of a bicycle.

We all know what a bicycle is. We all drew the bicycle, and of course all of our bicycles looked different. And so when we get frustrated about a relationship with a vendor because of some, whatever that disconnect is–

[00:08:32] Annette: The way you make a bed isn’t the way they make a bed.

[00:08:34] Sarah: Correct. You might say, fold the towel. But see, when I want my towels folded, I have a very particular way that I want it folded, and I have to remind myself that even if you can see the end result, how do you get there really makes a difference. So are you doing enough focused training work with your vendors? Are you meeting with your vendors in between showtime, in between turnovers, or inspections, or whatever to revisit your expectations and their expectations of you? Are you pausing for a moment? Are you always in a go go go mentality, forgetting to come back and really discuss and break down those operations?

[00:09:13] Annette: And have you done– Go side by side with them.

[00:09:18] Sarah: Yes.

[00:09:18] Annette: If there’s been repeated issues, it’s like, maybe just simply going to the home, doing the clean with them or the inspection. And I know that could be a very dicey subject because people don’t want you looking over their shoulders per se, but this is– again, you’re in a partnership together. And it could be like, hey, I want to see if there are any tools, if there’s anything that I can do that would make your job easier. And a lot of times– I know we’ve talked about this all the time.

You go, and you’re like, oh my gosh, they just need a new vacuum cleaner or this isn’t working properly. This washer and dryer is terrible. Let’s get a new washer and dryer. It’s faster. You can see– that stuff becomes very, very clear. But if you’re not on the frontline, you’re not doing it, you don’t even recognize what might be holding them back from doing an excellent job.

[00:10:02] Sarah: Here’s my weakness, is I am very well aware of my aggressiveness in terms of details. Then I do get self-conscious when I work with a vendor or an employee to not micromanage or to– obviously, I’ve hired them for a skillset, and so I am self-conscious about my aggressiveness, so I don’t end up breaking it down step by step of how I want them to get to the final destination. 

But I have to remember that it’s going to be better for everyone to just be who I am, the leader that I am, knowing that I have all the good intentions, and when we are going through those trainings and we are meeting up every month or quarter, whatever that is, to walk them through, and obviously, you don’t want to put them down or make them feel like they’re not capable, but still, you know what I mean?

[00:10:49] Annette: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:50] Sarah: Tell them what you want, I guess is what I’m trying to say.

[00:10:52] Annette: You permit it. You promote it.

[00:10:53] Sarah: You permit it. You promote it. And if I’m not being clear, I’m like, oh, just– then I want you to roll the towels and make sure they’re on the same way, but I need to show them exactly how to do it. 

[00:11:03] Annette: Exactly how. I agree. 

[00:11:05] Sarah: And then there’s this side too of, can the behavior be changed? Is there something happening in their personal life that is affecting their work life? Are they having transportation issues? Is there an issue with how they communicate? Are they having trouble keeping up with their phone bills? And I know you might be thinking, well, that’s not my responsibility, but just remember, number one, if otherwise the relationship is solid and their work is good, the cost of hiring someone new or finding a new vendor is–

[00:11:36] Annette: And the learning curve.

[00:11:37] Sarah: And the learning curve is, quite honestly, astronomical. And the time that you end up putting and focusing on this aspect of your business, where everything else gets put on hold or who knows what, wouldn’t it have been nice just to maybe figure out how you can, I don’t know, get them the bus pass or–

[00:11:53] Annette: Help them with– or if they’re asking for a higher rate. In our membership last week, we had, um, someone that actually, her cleaning team has asked for a pretty large increase in pay, and she’s more than happy to give it to them because she gets five-star reviews again and again and again, and she knows that that would be on the edge. That might be forfeited if she were to go back to the open market and try to find someone new.

And that was like, it was a no-brainer for her to just keep them on board because they give her excellent, excellent turns every single time. And she’s like, yeah, if they need more money, they backed up why, and she was happy to provide that.

[00:12:30] Sarah: And obviously, she looked into her financials. It is something that she can figure out and make happen. Now, let’s say you’ve done all these things. Because in my case, I did all of these things. I mean, this was quite some time of figuring out why is there a disconnect? What is it? Is it the tools? Is it the compensation? Is it the support?

What is it? Why is there a disconnect? And at the end of the day, when it comes to something that is just against your company values, your mission, the culture that you want to create in your business, if your business is you, and that’s it, and you still want to come to work in a happy, upbeat solution-based atmosphere, and there is a disconnect in terms of personality that isn’t changeable by something that you can simply do, that’s when you have to ask yourself when you’re not in an emotional state.

[00:13:25] Annette: We’re getting ready to leave for a trip.

[00:13:27] Sarah: We’re getting ready. Right. Because as Annette said before we hopped on too, there is never a good time.

[00:13:34] Annette: Ever a good time. It’s like, oh, it’s a holiday weekend. Oh no, this guest is coming. There will never be a good time. That’s the other part. I do want to– the conversation will never be fun, and there will never be a good time. And it will always suck.

[00:13:51] Sarah: It’ll almost always very much suck. But knowing that you have to– know what your non-negotiables are. Annette and I talk about non-negotiables all the time. Non-negotiables in terms of working. We get into to business ownership, into running these short-term rentals to create a certain life for ourselves. So when you do that, you need to lay the groundwork of what you’re willing to put up with and what you’re not. And then when those things happen– I’m not saying it’s easy because I don’t– I mean, Annette can tell you how many times we’ve talked about these certain situations and how long we vacillate to making the decision that we know needs to be made.

[00:14:28] Annette: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:29] Sarah: And let me tell you, here on the other side, it never got easier. But once the decision was made to part ways, things end up working out. All the things that you were terrified about. Even on the other side, the person that you end up letting go, as we all know, being on the side of being let go, it ends up being some of the best things that can happen to you.

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[00:14:52] Annette: I just want to dig into the situation a little bit more, but I don’t know if you want to.

[00:14:56] Sarah: Do it. Yeah. 

[00:14:56] Annette: We’re specifically talking about– you don’t care if I talk about it’s a cleaner?

[00:15:01] Sarah: No. Not at all.

[00:15:01] Annette: Okay. And I want to give some transparency here. This is specifically about the backbone of the business. The every day ins and outs. And so I know that this is a topic that comes up often of, is it about the work that they do? And there are some things that– Sarah, and I can let you know, there are things that you– there has to be give and take, especially– the turnover team, the cleaning team, it is such a laborious job.

And Sarah says it all the time. They are coming into a mountain of work. And so just having that understanding of what they’re dealing with. But two, that’s where as the turnover team, as the business owner, they also need to recognize that. There needs to be– I think there is some stuff– this particular situation of having some redundancy in their team and taking– it’s just as important for you as a host, taking some time off, also them having time off.

But that’s up to them. That’s their business. But I’m in LinkedIn, um, following someone on LinkedIn right now, and every day it’s like new property managers. And every day, the property manager is talking about their cleaning team and relying too much on one contractor there. And how that has just pretty much been a pain point for every single property manager. It’s a through line, um, in every, uh–

[00:16:25] Sarah: I’ll explain that a little bit. So, I mean, they have one contractor that they rely on for all of their properties, and how that’s a mistake.

[00:16:32] Annette: Yes. Well, just like– yeah, I mean, they’re putting all their eggs in that one basket for that team. 

[00:16:39] Sarah: And listeners, that’s not uncommon. I’ve been there. I’ve done that. Because when you work with a company and you give them multiple properties, you can often work out a really great price point for their services. And then you get a certain amount of loyalty there too, because it’s a large account for them.

But then when things go south, no matter what the contract says, it doesn’t make it any easier when you know the end is near and they have– you’re right. You have all of your eggs in one basket, and how tough that is. So it’s such a– catch 22. Is that the right word I’m looking for? You can get your best pricing when you work with one cleaning company, give them all your properties, but if it goes south, what does that look like?

I remember we had an interview with a guest a long time ago on the podcast and she mentioned that a cleaner really wanted all of her properties because she had great properties. A cleaner loved working for her, and she made her sign a contract. I don’t know what the contract said, but just something to the fact of–

[00:17:41] Annette: If you leave, you need to have– I forget. It was like 30-days notice or something. But still doesn’t mean that’s going to happen.

[00:17:49] Sarah: No, it doesn’t mean that’s going to happen. And here’s the thing too, listeners. We not only had to part ways with this backbone of the company, a cleaner, but we’ve also had to part ways with other team members, and it had nothing to do with their skillset. This cleaner was actually excellent. These team members are actually good at what you’ve hired them to do. But when there is a misalign– if there’s something unaligned there– unaligned, misaligned. 

[00:18:15] Annette: Misaligned.

[00:18:16] Sarah: Misaligned.

[00:18:16] Annette: Go misaligned.

[00:18:16] Sarah: Okay, great. It’s very hard to come back from that.

[00:18:22] Annette: Right. To bring it back to alignment. For misalignment to alignment.

[00:18:27] Sarah: Now let’s talk about how, okay, you’ve made the decision, and you had the conversation. It was not easy. It was very hard. And actually, in this case, it was once I got it out of my mouth–

[00:18:43] Annette: Rip the bandaid.

[00:18:44] Sarah: Rip the bandaid. The response from the other party was actually quite pleasant.

[00:18:49] Annette: Yeah, because it was– yeah.

[00:18:51] Sarah: Because I think they felt it too. And what’s still sad to me, or what I’m still struggling with, listeners, is I still don’t know why the relationship went south. There’s no one that I know of or that they shared with me. There’s no one moment or anything in particular I did. And that’s tough.

[00:19:11] Annette: Right.

[00:19:12] Sarah: In any relationship.

[00:19:13] Annette: For sure.

[00:19:13] Sarah: It’s not you, it’s me. So that continues to be hard. But here’s what I will tell you too. When you end up parting ways and you have to find a new team, what happens then? Well, here’s what I’ve learned. That’s also hard. No amount of prep work that I did in the background–

[00:19:31] Annette: I’ll just say, be prepared to pick up the slack.

[00:19:33] Sarah: Are you prepared to pick up the slack? Know that you’re not going to be able to predict everything. Because you know how I like to do that, and then I can’t, and then that frustrates me. But I mean, I had discussions with other offers out there and having that transition from one cleaner to another. And it doesn’t matter how far in advance I’d done that, how many people I talked to, all that got ready, the handing of the baton to the new team continues to be difficult, just because now you’re working with a whole new person.

[00:20:07] Annette: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:08] Sarah: Or new company, and you have to retrain your brain to know that they’re new to you. And so what you’re used to not having to talk about, your basics, your brand standards–

[00:20:19] Annette: Right. Are all brand new.

[00:20:21] Sarah: They’re all brand new.

[00:20:23] Annette: And we say this. Every property is a snowflake, so every single door, every single bed, every single bedroom, every kitchen, even though they can be similar, they’re still different.

[00:20:34] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:20:35] Annette: They’re still different. And, ooh, the– there’s a lot. There’s so many things. But again, be prepared to pick up the slack.

[00:20:45] Sarah: And let me talk about that. So obviously, Annette and I talk about backups for your backups all the time. And listeners, I hope by now you’ve learned to know that Annette and I put our heart and soul, and, um, we take everything that we share with you very seriously, and we practice what we preach as much as we can. And again, I was doing my best to have a backup for my backup and I still had to clean. And I had to rally the troops to help me clean. Our inspectors helped clean. Annette helped me clean. Annette’s mom helped clean, um–

[00:21:16] Annette: Your husband.

[00:21:17] Sarah: Husband cleaned. Who else cleaned? We had to rally the troops because it just took– I didn’t want to–

[00:21:24] Annette: And we ain’t canceling no reservations.

[00:21:26] Sarah: Heck no. We don’t do that. And I’m not throwing in a, um, you could do this, but I wasn’t going to throw in a temp service.

[00:21:34] Annette: Right. Just going online.

[00:21:36] Sarah: And here’s what I realized.

[00:21:37] Annette: Which, if you need to, you need to still inspect. 

[00:21:39] Sarah: No, no. 

[00:21:39] Annette: Yeah. 

[00:21:39] Sarah: People do it. I remember working at the hotel, we would do it often with servers, and bartenders, and cleaners. You can hire temp companies. But I did take this opportunity to re-put myself in the shoes of the cleaning team. And I learned so much about our checklists.

[00:21:55] Annette: Ooh. What your number one thing you learned? What do you think you learned? I learned that my feet really hurt.

[00:22:00] Sarah: You remember how just hard the job is.

[00:22:02] Annette: I’m like, oh man, my feet hurt really bad. And your husband’s did too. We talked about that.

[00:22:08] Sarah: We did. And I remember just how tough the laundry situation will always be.

[00:22:14] Annette: Oh, yeah. Wrestling with the bedsheets.

[00:22:16] Sarah: Whether you send it out to a professional cleaning company, whether you have it in house, no matter what, laundry is tough.

And it just keeps coming. And there always seems to be some little black speck of something no matter what. Yeah. Unfortunately, I don’t have a tangible like, here’s what I learned, but I just relearned to–and I’ve always had an intense respect for the cleaning team, but my goodness, did that remind me. But also, I did this too. I timed how long it took me to do Breezeway every time.

[00:22:47] Annette: Mm. Yeah. That was a good one.

[00:22:48] Sarah: And Breezeway, listeners, if you’re not sure, it’s a property operations. They sponsor the podcast, but that’s mostly because we’re obsessed with them. We’re like, listen, we love you so much. Please support our podcast because it’s just perfect alignment. But we ask our cleaning team to go through a checklist that has pictures that really, again, draw that bicycle for them. And the way I explain to them is every checkbox, every box you check off, that’s done, that’s our little mini contract with each other that you’ve done that thing.

[00:23:13] Annette: Right. 

[00:23:14] Sarah: And so I timed how long it took me to do it so that I knew when I was onboarding this new team, I could get down to the nitty gritty of how long each turnover would take with one person, with two people. What the quirks are at every single property. And I updated our Breezeway. So also in Breezeway, you can update the back of house of the property. So codes to all the doors, quirks about washers and dryers, dishwashers, whatever appliances. I really just got a chance to get in there and spring clean the back end of our properties.

[00:23:42] Annette: Well, something I know that you were doing, because I was listening to you is really shaping up the back of house and the supply closets. Wait a second. When those start to get sideways and messy, it does not make your life easier. So there needs– we just did a YouTube video on this, but that is something like, keeping that tight helps with everything.

[00:24:04] Sarah: Well, because you end up getting comfortable with– well, the current cleaning team, they had their own way of doing things and organizing things. So when we parted ways and I was bringing a new team in-house, I didn’t know where stuff was. I didn’t know. And I didn’t have that tight grasp that I once had on all of our systems.

And that’s okay. I mean, we also learned– we spoke at the investor conference two weeks ago in Scottsdale, Arizona. And one of the speakers just mentioned like, if you want to grow your business, you are going to have to delegate and know that things are going to happen and you’re not going to be able to checkmate everything. And that’s the way it is. In a certain regard, you cannot have a chokehold on literally every detail of your business.

[00:24:51] Annette: You got to let it go a little bit.

[00:24:52] Sarah: You got to let it go a little bit. And so I didn’t want to be too hard on myself in the fact that I didn’t know what the organizational systems were in all the properties anymore. But it was time for us to–

[00:25:07] Annette: Just reset.

[00:25:08] Sarah: Reset. And it was great. 

[00:25:09] Annette: It’s time for a reset. 

[00:25:10] Sarah: Yeah. Even the inspectors are really taking ownership, and loving it, and telling me what’s been working, what hasn’t been working. They’d love to try this so that when we onboard the new cleaning team, we can tell them, hey, we’ve learned over how many years now, this is will work really well, and we can actually give them a really nice onboarding experience. 

[00:25:28] Annette: Mm-hmm. I like it.

[00:25:29] Sarah: So that was also that too. But–

[00:25:34] Annette: Anything else?

[00:25:34] Sarah: It’s been a really hard six months.

[00:25:37] Annette: Yeah. Then that’s, um, we’ll give some visibility there. I’ll give it for Sarah. When it is the backbone of your business, it is mentally tough. I think this episode is just to give everyone out there– we know you’re like us. We know that you care so much, not only about your team, but you care so much about your property and so much about your guests.

You are going to feel it. You’re human. That’s why we produce the show. That’s why we love when we meet our listeners because we know this is going to strike a chord with you of that it isn’t just throwing any team in there, going on any app and just getting someone in your home because it is an asset, and they are helping you manage that asset alongside you. And so, um, it matters. It matters.

[00:26:28] Sarah: And I will always still hold with such weight in my heart team members.

[00:26:33] Annette: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:33] Sarah: Even if I know it’s time to part ways, I mean, that’s a long time that you’ve been working with someone, and there are so many awesome moments, and they’ve been there through it with growth and whatever. And so it’s just–

[00:26:44] Annette: It’s hard.

[00:26:45] Sarah: It’s hard all around. But I will tell you, on this side of it, we’re on the upswing again, and it feels really good to have some fresh energy, fresh ideas, and a new lease on business as we enter into the summer here, which is our busy season. So I hope that helps someone.

[00:27:03] Annette: Yeah. There’s no good time. Just remember that. There’s no good time. And if you’ve gone over the things again and again and again and it’s not getting better, it’s probably not going to get better.

[00:27:12] Sarah: No. It took me too long.

[00:27:13] Annette: Yeah.

[00:27:13] Sarah: Honestly. I’ll admit that to all of you. It took me too long, and it was because I was just, I don’t know.

[00:27:19] Annette: Well, you didn’t want to have to worry about what was on the other side. There’s a lot of other things that you have to deal with. 

[00:27:23] Sarah: Yeah. So with that, listeners, listen to your gut. Know what your non-negotiables are. Go back to them. Because here’s the deal. I wish I hadn’t– I vacillated for so long. I could have cut out a lot of sleepless nights if I would adjust, as I say, eaten the frog a lot sooner. So with that, I am Sarah Karakaian.

[00:27:40] Annette: I’m Annette Grant, and together we are–

[00:27:42] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting. 

[00:27:43] Sarah: Talk to you next time.