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 00:00:00] Annette: Welcome back for another great episode. My name is Sarah Karakaian.

I am Annette Grant, and together we are–

[00:00:05] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting. 

[00:00:07] Sarah: We’ve got an exciting episode for you today. But before we travel abroad, hint, hint, we’re going to kick off this episode like we do every week, and that is sharing one of you, our loyal listeners who’s using our hashtag #STRShareSunday, which I just learned has over 20,000 tags.

[00:00:23] Annette: Sarah, be honest. Remember when we first started? Sarah told me the story a long time after we got started, but we had no followers on Instagram. No one was using our hashtag and she said one night she was laying in bed, wait, tell– it’s so funny. She was like, forget it, this is never going to work. We had two people that use STR Share and it was me and her. And we had two podcast listeners, her mom and my mom. She literally was going to throw in the towel.

[00:00:50] Sarah: Oh, I don’t forget it. And I was also sleeping on a mattress, one of our flips has taken us five years to finish.

[00:00:55] Annette: What we’re saying here is we are completely blown away. Thank you. Every hashtag matters. Every podcast download matters. Every review really matters. But we’re going to share one of you today that has used our hashtag, and today we are sharing @meetme_atmango. Again, that’s @meetme_atmango. Be in the show notes. And this was so much fun going through Shoshana’s feed. 

Her feed is just as bright and colorful as her property. She is in Fort Lauderdale. Please check her out. She put in a hot pink Christmas tree. But everything here, I can tell she poured her heart and soul into this property. And one thing that really sticks out that I want to let you know is she has a lot of beds, but she’s done it in a really tasteful way.

Two twin beds. Two full beds. She hasn’t done the bunk bed route. If you know that you need to sleep a lot of people, and some of us are like that, you need to have these properties that you can compare. She’s in Fort Lauderdale. A lot of people are going there with a lot of people to travel. And so I just appreciate that instead of all the bunk beds, she was like, I’m still going to get the headcount that I need to make the numbers work, but I’m going to do it in a different direction. And I think that’s just a really great way to do it. 

Another thing is something that Shoshana has done that I haven’t seen as much with hosts is she has the shoppable button inside her Instagram feed. And when you see that, it’s like a little shopping bag. And I think she has affiliates accounts here. For instance, she has an outdoor shower, and that links to Florin Decor. It’s the same tile that she has used. And so if you double tap on it, she has links out to all the things that she’s designed her home with. So I’m hoping she’s getting affiliate commissions from this. But well done.

Please check out her reels. Check out her design. And I just appreciate what she’s done here. And she has, um, some influencers that have stayed at her place and she’s pinned their TikTok and reels. So well done. Check her out. And I absolutely love her logo and the name. It’s after the three mango trees in her front yard. But, Sarah, let’s get to the episode.

[00:03:11] Sarah: Well, per usual, we have an episode that is completely selfish, but we’re hoping all of you can benefit from it too. Annette and I have toyed with the idea of, we want to buy something soon here. We were like, we got money. We want to– it’s burning off– 

[00:03:25] Annette: By the water.

[00:03:26] Sarah: Yeah, by the water. And it’s burning a hole in our pocket. We thought about Mexico and we dream, and it’s like, but what don’t we know about buying in a country that we didn’t grow up in, that we know nothing about that culture? So we thought we would bring in one of our Hosting Business Mastery Members. We’ve got Julie here who’s going to tell her incredible journey of getting from backpacking in Australia to owning in Costa Rica while calling Canada home. So with that, Julie, welcome to the show.

[00:03:58] Julie: Thank you. So yeah, my husband and I met backpacking many, many years ago. We’ve actually been married for 20, almost 22 years. So we met quite a few years ago in Australia, backpacking. And it’s funny, I had to go– he’s Canadian as well, and so I had to go halfway around the world to find another Canadian.

[00:04:18] Annette: That’s how it works, right?

[00:04:19] Julie: How it works, right? And we weren’t even living in the same parts of the country at the time. This was just at the early stages of email and the internet, so we were penpaling and writing love letters back and forth, and Sunday evening phone calls and all that. 

And I eventually decided to move to Vancouver from Montreal to be with him and to see where it goes. Well, our relationship started and Australia planted a seed, and we decided to go back to Australia and work there for a few years. He was in the IT industry. There was a lot of demand for his skills, and we thought that could be a fun adventure for us. One of the things we both loved was travel. So we were in Sydney, Australia for four years. 

During that time, we were talking about what the future would look like. And short-term rentals weren’t really a thing then, bed and breakfast were more of a thing. And even on our honeymoon we would discuss ideas of what we could do. And we’ve always liked hosting people and you have friends come stay with us, and wouldn’t it be fun if we could do that as a business?

But it was always this crazy far out idea. So then we moved back to Vancouver after spending four years in Australia and life starts happening. We bought a house. We got a dog. We started our family with our daughter, and that dream just got shelfed. And so did the dream of going back overseas.

We had thought we would just go back to Vancouver for a few years, but then a few years turned into 16. Always with this discussion in the background. So from there, it was this fireside chat we always had like, oh, wouldn’t it be nice if we’d go somewhere, and what’s holding us back? And we started with, we should just downsize. We should just sell everything. We should sell the house. A little sidebar on that, we already had some long-term rental investments at that point.

[00:06:14] Annette: I was going to ask you, in this suburban time that you and your husband, uh, were doing your suburban life, were you starting to invest in real estate though?

[00:06:22] Julie: Yeah, we were. My husband found the long-term real estate space and that just ignited him. That just lit him up. So that was happening. But short-term was still this weird unknown idea that we couldn’t, I mean, we didn’t want to have it done in our own house. So we wanted to go back overseas and live somewhere. And started looking at what potential places we could live. And Costa Rica came on our horizon. So we decided that the first thing we had to do was sell our house, sell our belongings, and start putting ourselves– getting our ducks in a row to move.

[00:06:54] Annette: Okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I have ideas. Trust me, I got lot of ideas, but it’s not get my ducks in a row and move to another country. I want to know. How does the discussion start? Is it, hey, there’s a little fire inside, we want to go back overseas? Do you start going on Zillow? Did you take a family vacation and it really sparked it? Because what you’re saying to me is mind blowing, ducks in a row, long-term property, short-term, downsize our family. These are giant life decisions. And was it you more than your husband? Yeah. What was really the key thing that lit the fire, the fire starter, if you will?

[00:07:36] Julie: I like to do a lot of research. When I get an idea in my head, I need to do a deep dive into it. Whether I read all the books or I find all the websites, whatever it is. Just the idea of moving to Costa Rica, we talked about it often in our little fireside chats, what would it look like? We’re like, well, we’re not going to move somewhere cold.

[00:07:55] Annette: Okay, see, this is what I wanted. You start really using your imagination. Okay.

[00:08:00] Julie: Yeah. So moving somewhere cold, that’s not going to be an option. So that took Europe and other countries out of the mix. With aging parents, we didn’t want to be halfway around the world again. So appealing as a place like Thailand or other destinations like that would be really cool, it’s just too far time zone-wise, trying to coordinate family discussions when you have aging parents.

[00:08:22] Annette: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:23] Julie: We had to also consider schools because we were bringing a teenager for the ride with us. We had to consider where there was going to be some good international schools for her. So as I did all my research and would have these evenings of just diving deep on the internet, Costa Rica we kept coming up and kept coming up. And so we planned our first trip, just Mark and I, coming down here four years ago.

And just exploring some– we only had a couple weeks. That was all that we could get away for, so we decided to just focus on, as it turns out, the area that we live in now because it called to us. All the research I was doing felt this pull. And we came down and we fell in love with it. But honestly, at the time, I was a suburban mom. Moving from that and all my comforts to rural jungle Costa Rica, I was like, okay, yeah, this is really nice. It’s fun to be on vacation. We’re not doing this. I can’t see myself here. 

And then we planned a family holiday a year later just before the pandemic and explored different parts of the country. I don’t know, I guess we still felt the pull to Costa Rica and perhaps there was just this little– I thought maybe for somewhere a little more touristy that would be more appealing. And it was funny, it had the opposite effect. 

Once we had a taste of a more developed touristy Costa Rica, we’re like, this is not it for us, at all. We really want to go back to where we initially thought we didn’t belong, which is more rural and more lush and more green, and that’s what’s going to happen. So we made a plan for June, 2020 once the school year ended that we would make that happen. And meanwhile, we sold our house. We sold most of our things.

[00:10:04] Annette: Is your daughter kicking and screaming? 

[00:10:07] Julie: Oh yeah.

[00:10:07] Annette: If I’m a teenage girl, I’m pissed. What are you doing? Let’s talk about that. That’s a real– let’s talk about teenagers. I have never had a teenager, but I can only imagine. 

[00:10:19] Sarah: But I’ve been one.

[00:10:20] Annette: Right. A female teenager, not that females and males any are worse, but it sounds like she’s the only child. I’m just like, I can’t imagine. Let’s talk about that. Is it like, this is done, this is the decision, or is she part of this? How do you involve her in this conversation?

[00:10:37] Julie: So she was part of the conversation, but not with an option of opting out, if that makes any sense. So it was, we want to do this, what can we do to make it as comfortable for you as possible? And the agreement that we actually came to is that we would fly her back to Vancouver. She’s been traveling on her own since she was eight years old. 

 We’re a family that travels a lot. So she’s been flying to grandma and grandpa on the other side of the– in Montreal since she was eight. And she’s now been flying internationally on her own since she was, I think it’s 14. Yeah. In fact, she’s actually there right now, uh, because it’s the Easter break here right now. So I’ve got the house to myself. So that was the compromise we came to, is that she would get to visit her friends at least once or twice a year. And that we would do everything that we could within our means to make that happen. 

[00:11:26] Sarah: Do a little shadowing. Did she end up liking the move or is she still kicking and screaming?

[00:11:31] Julie: She has come a long way. Bear in mind the timing of when we did all this. We had planned to do this in 2020. School is online, you’re not really seeing your friends much. And then we move here and a lot of the same things. School was online here. They were only in class maybe once or twice a week, depending on the peaks and the highs and lows of what was going on. Really, really tough time to be the new kid in school. 

And also going from a school where there’s perhaps 30 children in a classroom, there’s now 30 children in the entire high school. She’s in a classroom of six. So a very large change, very hard to be that new kid in that environment. So that first year was pretty tough and it was tough on everyone in various ways. But yeah, to try and meet other families. Nobody else is moving here with teens, so trying to find other people in our same position was difficult.

[00:12:29] Annette: Both of these original trips, the first one that you took with your husband and then the second one that you took as a family, were you meeting with realtors? Is it like, yeah, you’re there traveling, but obviously, are you meeting with realtors? Are you going to banks? What type of– I know you said you’re a researcher. Are you that dialed in like you already had houses to look at, you already had areas? What did those trips look like?

[00:12:51] Julie: So all the research I was looking at was pointing to not rushing into things, um, that whole fools rush in mentality. So we did after that second trip, the one that we took as a family and went to the more touristy Northern Guanacaste area, is my husband within two weeks was back down here. He’s like, okay, I’m going back. I’m going to start looking at lots. And that’s when he– yeah.

[00:13:15] Annette: In two weeks, okay.

[00:13:16] Sarah: Let’s go.

[00:13:17] Julie: Oh, yeah. We were home for two weeks and he was like, okay, I’m going back. 

[00:13:19] Annette: Oh, wow.

[00:13:20] Julie: So he in a week had a different realtor lined up for every single day with all our things that we’re looking at. Now, bear in mind the background you’re seeing, this is actually a rental house that we’re in. We have been renting for two-and a-bit years. Because of that whole fools rush in thing, we did purchase land on that, I guess would’ve been his third trip to Costa Rica. 

But we’ve been taking our time, learning as much as we can about how to build down here. And that’s even a whole other podcast. So all the research that I was looking into was pointing into just taking it slow because things are different and you learn a lot about yourself. You learn a lot about your needs, um, when you’re renting. 

[00:14:03] Annette: What is the property difference financially? You’re Canadian, and I’m not as familiar financially there. When you were looking in comparison to your homes in Canada, what’s the financial exchange there? Are you going to be able to buy a lot more in Costa Rica? Can you talk about some of the financial differences there? And then also once you answer that question, what do the mortgages look like? What’s the difference, um, when you’re purchasing in Costa Rica?

[00:14:30] Julie: Okay. So I’m going to actually answer your second question first. It is extremely difficult for a foreigner to get a mortgage down here. Not impossible but there’s a lot of hoops you’d have to jump through. So it’s a cash only deal. So right away that sets your budget. Whether you’re buying land and then building on it, it’s all cash. No builder is going to finance you. None of that. So you need to be very dialed in with your numbers and what you can afford, and also be prepared that you’re going to go over budget.

[00:14:57] Annette: Okay. What was the dollar exchange though Canadian to Costa Rican? Is your dollar worth more in Canada than in Costa Rica?

[00:15:06] Julie: So here’s where it gets fun. We tend to think more in terms of US dollar to Costa Rican dollar, and right now it’s about 530 Colon to one US dollar, which is not great. We live off the income from our long-term rentals, which are actually in the US. 

[00:15:25] Annette: Julie, now you just threw another wrench in whole–

[00:15:27] Sarah: You are a layered human being. 

[00:15:29] Julie: Oh, there’s a lot of layers. 

 Part of leaving Canada, for us, was to– Canada’s a little different than the US in that we can get non-residency status for tax purposes. So we have not given up our citizenship, but because we’ve sold all our belongings and fulfilled all the criteria, we are no longer resident. So we no longer earn money in Canada.

[00:15:49] Annette: Ah. Interesting. Okay. 

[00:15:52] Julie: Otherwise, we’d be paying tax double. So something to keep in mind. Yeah, that’s a whole other thing. So we had to skirt that. And because we had sold our house, the initial proceeds for doing all the short-term rental investing was the proceeds of our house sale. So cash deals.

[00:16:14] Annette: Okay. So talk to us and our listeners about that. So you sold the primary residence in Canada, the proceeds from that home sale. What have you purchased short-term rental-wise from that particular sale? 

[00:16:27] Julie: So from that we’ve purchased three short term rentals. So the Vancouver housing market, uh, is extremely expensive and so at the time, in a pre-pandemic world, prices were more reasonable Right now, um, things have since gone up quite a bit. And so there’s also some interesting thoughts on selling some of the properties that we’ve purchased. But from the sale of the family home, we were able to purchase three apartments. 

[00:16:51] Annette: Okay. 

[00:16:52] Julie: The ones in Mexico were all pre-construction projects. So one we took possession of. The one in Akumal, we took possession of July, 2020, and the one in Puerto Vallarta is not going to be available until September, 2024, uh, although that could get pushed into 2025 if it goes the same way as the Akumal one did. Things happen on their own timeline internationally.

[00:17:19] Annette: That is one thing. We have had a few other guests on the show and then obviously conversations, and the construction timelines, number one, was something that became very apparent to them. And also just timelines for any laborer, whether it’s someone helping you with turnovers, a plumber, an electrician. You got to really comfortable with timelines being extended normally.

[00:17:48] Julie: And a lot of that has to do with the culture. Um, especially when we come from a North American very efficiency-focused mentality where we tend to prioritize work above everything else, in Central America, family is everything. And so your tradesperson or whatever person you’re working with, might not show up.

They might show up later. They might not show up at all until the next day. And it’s not because of laziness, it’s not because of a want of work. It’s like their mom needed them that morning. And so that’s the priority. Mom needed me, or my family needed me in some way, or an uncle passed away and now we’re all going to the funeral. Those are the things that as a foreigner, you just need to learn to adjust too, because family comes before everything. And in some people it’s even religion comes above that. But for the most part, family is first.

[00:18:38] Annette: Interesting. I mean, not interesting. It should be how things are, but we have some things server us–

[00:18:43] Julie: Yeah. But from a North American mentality, that we’re focused on timelines, it’s a very different way of thinking.

[00:18:49] Annette: Absolutely. 

[00:18:50] Sarah: So right now, do you have any short-term rentals in operation?

[00:18:55] Julie: Yes, we have the one in Costa Rica, and the one in Akumal, Mexico. That’s a little sidebar about the one in Mexico. We actually ended up– we thought we were going to manage that one ourselves a lot more than we actually are. The reality of just life and budget and things is that we’re not able to be there as often as we had initially planned when we purchased it.

 And so we’ve decided to go the property management route. And so we’re a lot more hands off on that one except for the initial setup. And that’s where all those HBMM lessons came in. And our property manager was very impressed with how detailed we were with the setting it up and making it just so. But as far as the rest of it goes, it’s a lot more hands off for us. The one that is in Costa Rica right now, um, that we purchased about a year and a half ago, that one is full hands on for me.

[00:19:44] Annette: If you can share with us financially, how’s it going for you? How’s the property in Mexico going? How’s the property in Costa Rica going? Let’s start with the property in Mexico first, because you have a property manager and it sounded like you did your financials with you managing it. Talk us through those financials and how it’s varying for you and your family.

[00:20:04] Julie: So the property in Mexico, the one in Akumal, it’s doing reasonably well. It’s weird when somebody else has their hands all over it because I feel like I don’t have as much control. I’m not doing the marketing, I’m not doing all the things that I like to do to boost it up on the first page and all those things. So in that respect, it’s not doing as well as I would like it to do, but it’s still doing reasonably well.

[00:20:28] Annette: Okay. 

[00:20:29] Julie: The one in Costa Rica is doing exceptionally well. So we’re just coming out of high season and it’s been pretty much solidly booked all through high season. I’ve only had a few gaps here and there with it not having guests. And that’s actually been a good thing because it’s allowed us to take care of a little bit of maintenance, um, in between guests at this time of year. 

[00:20:47] Annette: Talk to us about the traveler. Who is the traveler coming to Costa Rica? Is it a lot of US citizens, Canadian citizens? What are you seeing coming through your doors in Costa Rica as far as the clients?

[00:20:58] Julie: When we first launched, funny enough, a lot of our clientele was– so we launched a little over a year ago. A lot of our clientele were Costa Ricans because of the timing of it. We launched near the tail end of the high season, so a lot of the people that would’ve been planning ahead like the US market that would’ve been planning ahead, we weren’t launched yet for them to plan ahead to come down.

So it was mostly Costa Ricans who were looking to get away for the weekend down at the beach. So San Jose is about a 90 minute drive away. They can come down, have a nice weekend at the beach, and then go back to city life and their day to day. 

So very surprising, um, that those were our first initial guests or North Americans who were already in Costa Rica, either living or traveling and being a lot more flexible with their travel plans. And that carried us through the tail end of high season and most of the low season last year. And then that gave me the fire to achieve super host by the time would start booking their high season trips and then I would be on top for that. And then we were solidly booked pretty much from December through till now.

[00:22:12] Annette: Love it. What’s this doing for you now? This property, you had to pay in full for it, correct?

[00:22:17] Julie: Yeah.

[00:22:17] Annette: So is there– how is that balance? I’m making some assumptions here, but I’m assuming a lot of our listeners probably have some mortgage out on their short-term rental and maybe their primary residence.

 Is this cash flow right now for you and your husband to live? Are you guys still working? What is the plan with the income now from your two properties that you’re currently hosting plus the next? Is that what you’re living off of right now? Are you still working? Is your husband working?

[00:22:41] Julie: No, we’re living mostly exclusively off of our combination of our long-term rental income and the short-term rental income. We live very modestly, so I think something to keep in mind as far as central American living, Costa Rica is not a cheap country to live in. And it’s gotten more expensive in the two-and a-bit years since we’ve moved down here.

So although we were able to do very well, um, by bringing up the level of service that we were providing, um, as a host, and the apartment, the one in Costa Rica, what it used to rent for in a month, on a monthly basis we’re now getting in a week in high season.

[00:23:17] Annette: All right, let’s slow that down. 

[00:23:19] Julie: Yeah. 

[00:23:20] Annette: Can you give us numbers in USD; would you mind doing that?

[00:23:24] Julie: No, um, we rented for a $1,000 a week.

[00:23:27] Annette: Okay. And so– 

[00:23:28] Julie: And the previous owner used to get that a month, but with doing very little for the guests and not really providing great service.

[00:23:33] Sarah: So get specific there. I mean, to us, Hosting Business Members, it probably seems obvious of the changes you made, but just for fun, what are the exact changes you made that you think made the biggest impact on that revenue change?

[00:23:50] Julie: Okay. So for starters, there were some cosmetic changes that we had to make to the apartment. And because we wanted to get it up and online quick, we had to look at our to-do list and prioritize. The obvious one at the time was furniture. What was in there was quite ugly. And so we prioritized the bedroom furniture, had something really nice made. Invested in some nice hotel quality bedding, and just really made that much more appealing. 

[00:24:16] Annette: Was it a short-term rental before too?

[00:24:19] Julie: It was.

[00:24:20] Annette: Oh, so we’re not even talking long-term rental. With this a short-term rental, you have four acts with– 

[00:24:26] Julie: Yeah. It was an underperforming short-term rental.

[00:24:28] Annette: So good. Keep it going. 

[00:24:31] Julie: The really appealing thing for us is, well, first of all, it’s on the beach. It has a private rooftop deck, and it didn’t have a cover on it the way the neighbors do. So it was wide open to the sun, which nobody was spending any time up there.

None of the guests were spending time. So that was another priority of ours is, let’s get that baby covered up and create a really nice outdoor space up there. So we put a hammock. We put a really nice seating area. We brought a barbecue in. All these little touches just to make it much more welcoming, and not just a crash place. And same thing in the living room. 

The living room and the kitchen, we didn’t do too much except that we threw out a ton of crap. There was just a lot of clutter and junk that wasn’t adding anything at all to this space. And instead we just gave it a nice little clean slate and, uh, put the things in the kitchen that really should be there, like a good coffee maker, some nice dishes, a toaster that didn’t look like it was bought in 1980. It was just all these little things.

 And that got us going. And we started getting some guests booked in. And then as the money started coming in, we could then prioritize other purchases. A few things were some surprises that we were, for example, planning to replace the sofa, but then the washing machine crapped out and we had to replace the washer dryer. So sofa budget went to that. And of course, like I said, everything here, you purchase things on cash and so, um–

[00:26:01] Annette: Got you. 

[00:26:02] Julie: You need to be prepared for that. That was a little bit of a financial surprise. And then, yeah, as the money comes in, we don’t personally live off a lot of the income that comes from the short-term rental. It provides the little extras. We mostly live off the long-term rental income at this point, because a lot of money had to be spent in that first year just bringing the place up.

[00:26:23] Annette: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:24] Julie: Once we started getting it looking really good and taking really nice pictures and getting some good reviews, that really helped us be on page one and get more and more bookings. And then we could slowly raise the prices. 

[00:26:38] Annette: And your property that’s under construction, did you have to pay in full for that also?

[00:26:43] Julie: No, we have a special arrangement on that one. That one does have a mortgage on it. That’s a whole other–

[00:26:51] Annette: You used the word special arrangement, so we were just like, we’ll leave that there.

[00:26:56] Julie: No, sorry. No, I don’t want to take it– it could become a long conversation. 

[00:26:59] Annette: No, but I appreciate that.

[00:26:59] Julie: My husband’s very involved in these real estate investment groups and they do these bulk purchases where somebody in the group guarantees a special price by having 25 investors that are going to buy into the same project.

[00:27:14] Annette: AD MARKER

I want to talk about, strictly, are you getting all of your bookings from Airbnb right now?

[00:27:22] Julie: Mostly. So that is our main funnel. We’re also on Vrbo, and we’re also on Booking. And I’ve had a few bookings coming in that way. Those are not as easy to work with, especially in this market because they’re not set up exactly for what we are offering, but I look at it as those are bookings I would not have had otherwise.

[00:27:40] Annette: Absolutely. 

[00:27:40] Julie: And so– 

[00:27:41] Sarah: Yeah. Since why not.

[00:27:42] Julie: It’s worth the pain factor of working with those organizations. But yeah, I would say 90% of our bookings come in from Airbnb and some of those have been repeats as well.

[00:27:54] Annette: Oh, love that.

[00:27:56] Julie: Yeah, so of course, you always mention, book with us again and contact us directly next time and we’ll give you a better deal. And we’ve had people take us up on that.

[00:28:06] Annette: Love that. 

[00:28:07] Sarah: Property in Costa Rica and property New Mexico, is your mindset long-term wealth or is it getting to be your own boss? Do we think about Costa Rica real estate the same as we would think about it with the US real estate in terms of it appreciating?

[00:28:23] Julie: We’re always looking at what the appreciation is. Um, we’ve actually got the Alkumal property up for sale right now just to see if we’d get any bites if it’s worth 

just because it’s appreciated. And we thought, well, in the long-term, are we going to do better by taking advantage of that appreciation and then being able to take that money and do something else with it? Or are we better off hanging onto it? Right now it looks like it’s a better move to sell it. My buzzword with my husband, um, is always, what’s the exit strategy? 

So any ideas that we always have about real estate is always, what could we do next, and what does the future hold? And so sometimes that means hanging onto things, and sometimes that means letting go of things. And right now, because we live full-time in Costa Rica, we’re wanting to focus more of our efforts down here. And because it’s a lot more challenging to get to and from Mexico from here than we initially had planned, we’re not looking long-term to be in Mexico. 

But with a daughter who is soon going to graduate high school and leave the nest, we are looking at what other markets might we want to get into and other places we might want to travel to. So it’s an ongoing conversation that we’re always having.

[00:29:36] Annette: I used to get furious. I’m going to be vulnerable. I used to get furious when I would talk to businesses and the first thing they would talk about is their exit strategy. And I would just think it was the most not motivating for team members, and like, is that the only thing you’re worried about is getting rid of your business? Do you even care about your business right now if you’re only concerned about the exit strategy? And I can confess that I’ve completely changed my mindset about that to, why are you doing anything if you don’t know what the exit strategy is? 

So I love that you said that because I think you do have to start with the end in mind, or you don’t have a direction. You don’t have a path, or it’ll really help you change the path that you’re on. And I do want everybody to listen to what you said, your buzz statement with your husband is, is what’s the exit strategy? Because I think a lot of people are like, a, what’s the worst-case scenario? What’s the best-case scenario?

But truly it is, what is the exit strategy here on whatever it may be? Is it buying the property? Is it starting the business? Because I think it forces you to fast forward and get really, really focused on why you’re doing what you’re doing. And then if you waffle and you’re like, oh my gosh, a, there is no strategy, and b, there is no exit strategy, then we need to probably rethink all of it. 

So that has been a huge mindset shift for me from not wanting to talk about it at all, or thinking that was like the cap out thing for people or the easy way out. I’m like, no, that’s the most strategic way, I think, to look at things instead of worst case, best case, the here and now. It’s like, really what is that exit strategy there? So I love that. Have you and your husband always talked like that about the exit strategy or when did that conversation start to come up?

[00:31:19] Julie: I think it’s mostly been in the past three years. I mean, the world is changing and changing very quickly and we’ve all had to learn to pivot a lot more quickly than we had. And honestly, the day we sold the house, it was like an albatross had been cut loose off my neck. And it suddenly gave us that comfort of not just getting stuck and doing the same thing all the time.

[00:31:44] Sarah: What a good a good way at, Julie. I mean, very few people think of it that way. You think of home as your base, as the most safe place ever. And I appreciate your point of view of it being this thing that you could let go to free you up to really follow your heart. And I also appreciate that you lived in that home for a very long time and represented a certain chapter or chapters in your life. And so you’re ready to turn the page. And we all have different stories we’re telling, but I do love that perspective.

[00:32:16] Julie: In the end, it’s just stuff, right? 

[00:32:18] Sarah: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:19] Julie: At least for us. To us, home is where we are together as a family. It’s not necessarily a place that has been in the family for many years, or a place that has all these heirlooms in it. It’s wherever we are together as a family is home to us. 

[00:32:33] Annette: A couple of things because I know our listeners are going to want to know. A, what did your neighbors, your family and friends, did you get flack? Were they like, you are completely nuts? What are you doing? Talk to us about the backlash if there was from–

[00:32:45] Sarah: The backlash. No, I know. Everyone has–

[00:32:47] Annette: I’m sure friends, family, obviously, there were some backlash from your daughter, but what was the rest?

[00:32:52] Julie: Mostly people were excited for us. This is not something that would’ve been terribly surprising to most of our nearest and dearest. A lot of our closest friends had been part of that conversation with us where we would be saying, oh, wouldn’t it be nice to do this again someday? So they always knew that we weren’t necessarily going to stick around, um, in Vancouver forever, that there was a chance we were going to go settle somewhere else. So yeah, when we did make the big announcement, it was like, oh, that’s super cool. And mostly supportive. 

A few people expressed concern for our daughter and the impact it was going to have on her. And it came from a place of love, not a place of judgment that, are you making the best decision for her? And we had to give that a lot of thought. But everybody that we had spoken to who– we’ve got friends who grew up with military parents who got moved around a fair bit.

All of those people said, I hated it at the time, but as a person, I grew and it helped me with what I was doing in the future. It made me more comfortable with change when I went off to university. It made me more comfortable with change when my husband or wife’s job transferred us to– it just made them more comfortable with change. And so helped us a lot with our decision, um, and being more comfortable that we were doing the right thing.

[00:34:10] Sarah: You are in our mastermind group, Hosting Business Mastery Members. What I would say, 90%, if not more, of our members are not only US citizens, but they own property in the United States. We now a few members who live elsewhere and own elsewhere. What [Inaudible] we talking about that you learned as an international host? Can you think of anything off top of your head?

[00:34:34] Julie: Oh, yeah. How much time have you got?

[00:34:35] Sarah: Oh my God, so much time. I’m so interested.

[00:34:37] Julie: So I’ve already touched a little bit on the culture change, and how we need to understand that we are the guests in a foreign country and that things are done differently. And it’s not up to our hosts to adapt to us. It’s the other way around. We need to adapt to the way things are, and understanding that family comes first. 

And also an effort to learn the language. That has helped me tremendously because you can’t assume that your cleaners, or, I mean, in my case, hardly anybody that I deal with on the daily in regards to my business, whether it’s a trades person, a repair person, air conditioner repair or replacement, um, my property manager, my cleaners, they all speak Spanish. 

And I, through taking a weekly lesson, but also a whole lot of Google translate, a whole lot of people, I’ve had to just learn to communicate and learn the ways of things being done down here. It’s funny when I first started with HBMM, we were learning about all this different tech and all this really cool stuff, and I was like, oh yeah, how cool would that be. The reality is that they really like WhatsApp down here. 

[00:35:43] Annette: Yeah. 

[00:35:43] Julie: And so everything is done on WhatsApp and it’s cool. We create groups. I’ve got a group that includes my cleaners because the place that we purchased here, it’s part of a seven-apartment condominium complex with an onsite caretaker. And that was extremely appealing to us because as our first purchase in a foreign country, we wanted a bit of a handholding, a bit of a comfort zone there. 

So having an onsite caretaker helps a lot with that. The seller’s agent turned out, uh, to be very knowledgeable about hospitality, and so we hit it off right away with us, and she became, not a full on property manager, but she handles our check-in and checkouts with us. But all of that is done in Spanish and all of that has required a whole lot of learning. 

And so, yeah, we do it all on WhatsApp. We take photos. So if there’s something that’s not quite right, they’ll take a picture of it for me and send it to me on WhatsApp, like something’s broken, something’s not right or they’ve got a question. 

We just had a new cleaner and so we had to teach her how things were done with the previous cleaner and how were things we want now. So she would make the bed, take a picture, is this okay? No. We want this done. And then she’d take another picture and send us again, is this right?

And so there was a lot of that going back and forth. And so we just had to be very, uh, very cognizant of that. Also to keep in mind, not everybody’s level of literacy might be what you’re used with where you’re from. Being able to voice messages. Um, a lot of people in Costa Rica prefer to do that rather than spend time typing out a long message. They’ll just hit record and message you something. So you’ve got to be comfortable with that. 

 Infrastructure is huge. The infrastructure here is not at all what we’re used to back in North America. So the power will go out. The internet will go out. The water will go out. And sometimes all three on the same day and all at once. And sometimes when you’ve got a guest staying there, sometimes when you’ve got a guest checking in that day, so you’ve got to be prepared for that, but you also need to prepare your guests.

[00:37:42] Annette: How do you prepare them for that? Is that something you say very clearly upfront? I mean, are you reimbursing for that or do you just let that be very known that’s the way?

[00:37:52] Julie: It’s part of my listing, and I call it my Price of Paradise clause.

[00:37:56] Sarah: Ooh, I like that.

[00:37:57] Annette: Copywriting. Yeah. 

[00:37:59] Sarah: Hosting hot tip.

[00:38:00] Julie: I just call it Price of Paradise. And it says, this municipality is subject to occasional water, power, and internet outages. We provide bottled drinking water. We provide flashlights, and we provide an uninterrupted power source, also known as a UPS, and therefore there’ll be no discounts for any inconvenience. So we’re stating upfront what we are already doing for them. And showing that we are being proactive. But these things are beyond our control and we can’t really do much else about it. 

[00:38:31] Annette: Price of paradise.

[00:38:32] Julie: And so by knowing that upfront, we feel that they know what to expect. It’s also in our guest manual, so if they have missed it, they also see it. And so far it hasn’t been an issue. I mean, it’s happened, but then right away, I’m communicating with the guests and saying, hey, I know the water’s out, Sophia’s going to drop off some extra bottled water for you guys. Hey, I know the internet is out, I’ve been in touch with the provider and they’re working on it.

I’m having to be proactive in communicating during this day and making sure they know that I’m aware of it and that I’m looking after them as best as I can by providing them with some options. And most of them are like, oh, we’re just going to go to the beach, no problem.

[00:39:08] Sarah: And what another great tip. I don’t care where you live, but to be proactive and to have things set up. So you know the powers out, you let your guests know first. They don’t let you know first. As best as you can. Especially in today’s technology, if you’re able to get those notifications. We continue to impress our guests whenever we let them know. They’re like, oh my gosh, I didn’t even know. We were out getting bagels. And I’m like, maybe you want to stay out a little longer because there’s no power back there. And just letting them know that you care and that you’re on top of it. 

[00:39:33] Julie: And sometimes they have been the ones that let me know. I mean, the tech isn’t perfect.

[00:39:37] Sarah: Right. Sure. 

[00:39:38] Julie: So sometimes I– or I’m driving and I don’t get the message until I’m at the grocery store, so I don’t always get it immediately. And so we have little gifties that we have. They’re in the land of coffee and chocolate, and so we always have some extra coffee and chocolate on hand so that we can drop it off as a little care package. Business we talk about in HBMM, whether it’s coffee or bagels or whatever.

We do that little treat to smooth things over. And up until now, like I said, people have been really good about it. And I don’t know if it’s because they were prepared and already told about it upfront or because we’re communicating with them and we’re not making excuses, we’re being proactive, that they just seem to appreciate that a lot.

[00:40:16] Annette: I know we just went over the stuff that we didn’t prepare you for, but we’re going to do a selfish plug here. Talk to us about being a part of our group because you are in Costa Rica and a lot of our members are here in the US. Sarah and I like to know how you found us, why you made that decision to join our group, and what the group has done for you.

[00:40:33] Julie: I actually found you guys through the podcast initially. I was just trying to find information out there because my husband and I have always liked looking after people and we really wanted to focus on that part of hosting for short-term rentals around the time that we were purchasing this first one, um, in Costa Rica. And I just wasn’t finding a lot of information out there. 

So when I came across you guys, I was like, holy crap, this is what I’ve been looking for. And then I think you did a plug about joining HBMM, and talked about it with my husband. And I said, we’ve invested in your career and your learning with long-term rental over the past few years, now it’s time to invest in me. And so we did that.

And biggest takeaway I’ve gotten from you guys is how to look after the guests and the messages before, from the time that they book and few days before, and the morning after their first night, and the checkout messaging, and asking them for the review afterwards.

All that really caring for the guests and making sure that you provide some extras. Don’t just provide four forks. Make sure the place is well kitted out. And all that list you guys provide, I mean, I was using that like a complete checklist. Okay, I’ve got to make sure I’ve got extra sheets on hand, extra towels on hand, extras of extras. So I found that was really helpful for me. And also the community. Just being able to talk with other people who had that same focus and that same care for the guests.

[00:41:57] Annette: I think that’s the biggest thing is you don’t realize you need the community. Because you said you talk to your team a lot, obviously, you’re WhatsApp-ing constantly with them. But it’s like you want to talk to other hosts and see what challenges they’re having, what wins they’re having. And that’s where it’s like, oh my gosh, wait, where are these other people? 

And let’s talk about that one last thing here is, how are you connecting with– are there other expats that you’re becoming– are you host friends with anybody, um, in Costa Rica? How has that been going for you? Are you meeting other hosts there? What’s that look like? 

[00:42:31] Julie: So one of the closest friends that we’ve met here, she’s actually a neighbor of mine, but there’s a little hotel just down the road and she owns that hotel. And she, like me, is very guest-focused. And so we bounce a lot of ideas off each other because we’re both doing this in a foreign country. She’s from the US. So if she’s having a challenge with a guest, she’ll bounce something off me. If I’m having a challenge, I’ll bounce it off her. We both have dealt with staffing issues in the past year. How do we handle those delicate situations? So it’s been really helpful to have her and likewise.

[00:43:02] Annette: No, that’s so cool. Love it.

[00:43:04] Sarah: All right, Julie, we don’t know about living abroad and owning abroad, so what parting words do you have for our listeners that maybe we ask you want to make sure that they know if they’re thinking about buying anywhere in the world other where they live?

[00:43:17] Annette: Yeah. What would you have told Julie when you and your husband were getting ready to take a dive?

[00:43:22] Julie: Well, for starters, be prepared to be paying for things in cash. We’re so used to, as North Americans, putting everything on the credit card and then dealing with it. That’s just not how things work in many international markets. You have to be prepared to pay workers in cash. Many small businesses want cash. And that has a little bit to do with taxation, which is a whole other conversation. In some markets, accepting a credit card, those businesses that don’t want to take the extra hit, that 3%, that 5%. So you need to be prepared to have money on hand to do that.

 Over and all, go with the flow and don’t sweat the small stuff. Don’t worry about whether your cleaner put the pillows back on the bed exactly the way you want or whether all the mugs are lined up in the cupboard just right. It might be important in some markets. Here, you worry about whether your power’s going to stay on during the guests stay or whether the air conditioning is going to crap out. 

And I’ve had to deal with that and I’ve had to be prepared to with it very quickly and come up with the solution very quickly. And so you just need to be very– go with the flow. You’ll have your little internal moment.

[00:44:29] Annette: Right. You can take hard, but the others, you need to take the impact of it. 

[00:44:33] Julie: Yeah. Exactly. You need to just be focused, okay, move on, what’s the solution, and let’s deal with this and get it done. So yeah, you can’t be bogged down with sweating it.

[00:44:44] Annette: Love it. And we will make sure, listeners, we will put Julie’s listing in the show notes. So if you are traveling, please let her know you found her on the podcast. Stay with her.

[00:44:53] Sarah: I’m about to ask Annette if she wants to go to Costa Rica and stay with you. This sounds nice. 

[00:44:58] Annette: This episode is really fun because I love that you just -. You and your husband obviously didn’t happen that swiftly, but you made the decision and you went for it. Because I know there’s a lot of people that are out there with hopes and dreams and they’ve been waffling on it for a while. So listeners, if this impacted you and you’re getting ready to make a change, let us know so we can let Julie know that her story was inspiring to you. But go visit her also in Costa Rica.

[00:45:25] Julie: I think for us, the biggest thing that we always go back to, what’s the worst that can happen? I moved from Montreal to Vancouver with that mentality. If this relationship doesn’t work out, I either decide to stay or I turn around and go back to where I came from. We moved here, what’s the worst that can happen? 

We bought our first property, what’s the worst that can happen? Either it works or it doesn’t work out. And what do we do to move on? And just to not get caught up with it too much.

[00:45:50] Sarah: That is solid advice for so many things in life. I mean, obviously, you want to think about your decisions and weigh the pros and cons. Of course. But when you ask yourself what’s the worst that can happen, and you’re like, hmm, that’s actually not the worst thing. Yeah, that’s not great, but I have to move back. But I can move back.

[00:46:07] Annette: I said you made a swift decision, but I love when we started digging in to how you decided on the location, everything was so– you had your head on straight like, we want to be in this time zone if we need to get to our parents. We want it to be warm.

All of a sudden, it’s like, wait, this decision that seemed from left field was very, very calculated and had a lot of time and a lot of your research also behind it. So it wasn’t just out of nowhere. So I think we also just count all the pieces and parts that go into it. So hopefully we will see you not just on our Zoom calls with your beautiful background, but we’ll be with you by your pool in the background. 

[00:46:45] Sarah: Awesome.

[00:46:45] Julie: I’d love to have you.

[00:46:46] Sarah: Thank you so much, Julie, for your time and your openness about your story. With that, I am Sarah Karakaian.

[00:46:54] Annette: I am Annette Grant, and together we are– 

[00:46:56] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting. 

[00:46:57] Sarah: Talk to you next time.