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[00:00:05] Sarah: Hello, listeners. Welcome back for another great episode. My name is Sarah Karakaian.

[00:00:10] Annette: I am Annette Grant. And together we are–

[00:00:12] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting.

[00:00:13] Sarah: Let’s start this episode like we do each and every week, that is featuring one of you, our incredible listeners, who’s using our hashtag on Instagram. That’s #STRShareSunday. We’ll share you here on the podcast, on our Instagram account every single Sunday, to our entire email list. Annette, who are we sharing this week?

[00:00:30] Annette: This week we are sharing @theretreataustin. Again, that’s @theretreataustin, and we just had the pleasure of staying at theretreataustin, and we got to meet the host. Also, his name is Bill, and we’re just going to give him some street cred right now. 3,200 reviews, 4. 96 rating, hosting for over 12 years.

[00:00:55] He had the top booked and revenue producing short-term rental in Austin for several years. He’s been hosting for 12 years. So he knows a thing or three. And the craziest part about all of it is he’s a host hacker. And you’re like, what’s a host hacker? A host hacker is someone that lives on the property. He’s been moving unit to unit as he rehabs them and gets them guest ready.

[00:01:21] And I don’t even want to say rehab. It was a primary residence that he is now configured into five different units, and coming soon a sixth. And it also has a pool. So he is maximizing all of the real estate. And I can share, please go to his Instagram. Go through each and every one of his listings, because I think it’s a wonderful testament of how you can use a home, a primary residence, turn it into a multiple unit, and it still feels very private.

[00:01:52] All of the entrances are on different sides of the house. You feel very separated unless you’re at like the pool together, which is fine, but he’s done a really good job. I love what he said. Deconstructing his property, so noise, interaction, privacy is accomplished even though it’s on the same property. And again, he is sticking with it. He has been there, done that, and he is still thriving every day. So if you’re in Austin, please go stay with Bill.

[00:02:26] Sarah: It was lovely.

[00:02:27] Annette: And Sarah knows, I want to talk to every host, and Sarah’s a little like, Annette, you’re going to talk to him, aren’t you?

[00:02:34] Sarah: No, he came out to talk to the pool– the pool guy came on site to tend to the pool, and we had met Bill the day before real quickly. He was just like, oh, are you Sarah? Okay, here’s your door. And then he went on his way, and I knew when he came out of the pool to see the pool guy I was like, Annette’s going to get him, and she’s going to start talking to him, and lo and behold a two-hour tour ensued and–

[00:02:55] Annette: And it was great. It was really wonderful. We got to see each unit because everyone was checking out and people are getting ready to check back in. So it was really great to be able to see each and every property, including he has a bolus, which is similar to an airstream on the property too. So give him a follow. Man, I just want to say, when you’re looking through the pictures, pay attention to the details. Every piece of furniture, his designer, the beds, I can tell you hit the–

[00:03:24] Sarah: It was good.

[00:03:25] Annette: And he shared with us he spends– I hope you’re sitting down because he will spend three to 5k on the beds, and he is investing in the custom artwork, again, because he lived on property. So he went from unit to unit, but he is crushing it.

[00:03:42] Sarah: I think this is a great segue into today’s episode, going from you having the courage or knowing how important it is to connect with someone, have a conversation because we had that great conversation with Bill and we learned so much about what’s going on in his brain and how he made his real estate work for him and what’s important to him when he’s hosting.

[00:04:04] Fast forwarding to this event that we’re podcasting from. So we had a booth and had a Thanks for Visiting at behind it, and we brought our podcast equipment with us. So in this episode, you are going to hear background noise, but we’re hoping that adds to the excitement of bringing you to this event with us.

[00:04:21] What we did was Annette and I would go to sessions and then we’d go back to our sponsor table, and we would get our headsets on, get the mics on, and share with you what our takeaways were from the conversations that were happening at this event on top of, and here’s where it segues, I think, from Annette being the brave networking individual she is, pulling hosts out of the crowd and seeing what their takeaways are, what their secret sauce is when it comes to hosting.

[00:04:49] Annette: So essentially what we wanted to do is bring you, your ticket to the event without having to take the time, fly, or spend the money. So this is your backstage past of what happened at the IMN event summer forum, Austin.

[00:05:03] Sarah: And let us know if you like this episode or if you don’t like it. I want to hear if the background noise, if the way this episode turns out, we need to know if it’s something you like and want us to do more of, or less of. hi@thanksforvisiting. com. We welcome any and all constructive feedback, and let’s go with the show. All right, Annette. We just got out of our first session at IMN industry outlook, the great right sizing and the future of short-term rentals. It was a pretty good panel.

[00:05:36] Annette: Yes. There is–

[00:05:39] Sarah: Avery Carl was representing the ladies, which is always good.

[00:05:42] Annette: As an individual investor also. It was a panel. There were five people on the panel. The CEO of AvantStay, the CEO of Kasa, K-A-S-A, a gentleman from AirDNA, and then one other person from Revity, was the name of the company, so all data backed with where we are, where we’re headed. And there was a couple of things that were talking about trends. I haven’t heard this statement before, investment versus non-investment grade.

[00:06:19] Sarah: Yeah, I was getting fired up.

[00:06:21] Annette: Okay, so let’s explain what we think it is. Investment is the larger property managers, people going and solely investing for short-term rental only.

[00:06:33] Sarah: Andy parlayed it to at least having more than three months of bookings active.

[00:06:41] Annette: Per year.

[00:06:42] Sarah: Per year.

[00:06:42] Annette: And the non-investment grade would be a second home, essentially.

[00:06:46] Sarah: He kept calling them mom-and-pops, everyone, and I was getting fired up about it. Because a majority of the short-term rentals in the United States are owner operators. They are the human beings that actually invest in the property and are running them, and in my experience are a lot of you guys who listen in. And those are the properties that we stay at–

[00:07:08] Annette: Supply a better product than the investment grade.

[00:07:12] Sarah: I would no longer stay at a property that’s managed by a giant company. I just don’t trust them anymore.

[00:07:17] Annette: Well, I would stay. I would give them a shake.

[00:07:20] Sarah: I wouldn’t.

[00:07:21] Annette: I would give him a shake.

[00:07:22] Sarah: But you know me, it’s like one time you like, [Inaudible], and I’m like, I’m out.

[00:07:24] Annette: Yeah, no, I would stay. I would give it a shot. But the one thing that kept– we can say it. 

[00:07:32] Sarah: Let me ask you this, though, Annette, and be honest. If you were going to a marketplace and you had the option between an independent owner operator, you saw their smiling face, you know–

[00:07:42] Annette: Oh, yeah, I would absolutely stay with them.

[00:07:45] Sarah: I think that’s what I’m saying, is like, I know that I have better luck staying with–

[00:07:50] Annette: That’s if I’m choosing it. Let’s say I’m going with a group of friends and one of them booked the place and it was– then I’m staying there. I’m not going to boycott it because it’s a larger property manager.

[00:07:58] Sarah: No, no, I’m not going to [Inaudible] about this.

[00:07:59] Annette: Would I choose it? I wouldn’t choose it. Or let’s say it’s like one of our friends in the industry is having to play. I’m going to go over there and check it out. Absolutely. That’s where I’m coming from with this. But the one thing a gentleman kept saying was that he kept using this thing that there’s underwear hanging out of the drawer. That was how he was–

[00:08:23] Sarah: Categorizing mom-and-pop operators

[00:08:24] Annette: Mom-and-pops, is that they don’t even clean up their underwear before a guest checks in. There’s really just still a non-communication or a coming to terms with the owner operators, the larger property managers, and just us all sitting down. And the problem is we’re not walking into each other’s properties, I think is what’s going on. 

[00:08:50] And so there’s still a ton of work to do, I think, in that realm of people coming together and actually knowing that a mom-and-pop or a owner operator can have an amazing stay. We’re in Austin right now. I know that we just checked a what would be called a “mom-and-pop” restaurant who had 5,000 almost five-star reviews crushing it versus a chain, what would be an investment grade restaurant.

[00:09:20] Sarah: We compare this all the time too. Here’s the deal, and I can take my own advice here of investment grade, mom-and-pop, we’re all representing the short-term rental furnished rental brand, and it matters that we have the traveler’s trust. So I think I also there was like, why are we separating–

[00:09:39] Well, because I will say on the panel, there are giant operators up there, and they have an agenda, which I understand that, but it really doesn’t need to be investment grade versus just mom and pop. It really needs to be about this brand holistic, hey, guys, we need to level up. It is still the most nerve-wracking moment for our guests the moment they walk in.

[00:09:57] Annette: To check in to see if there is underwear.

[00:09:59] Sarah: Underwear hanging out of the drawer.

[00:10:00] Annette: I want to chat quickly, though. There was a question asked of, where does 2024 end? And we can share that Avery Carl from the Short-Term Shop gave us a really good insight into there are still, she said, the same amount of buyers coming through their doors as far as interest in purchasing short-term rentals as there were in 2022, but they are closing 40% less of them because of interest rates. 

[00:10:30] So she’s like, the interest is still there. They’re just not able to get them across the finish line financially because of these interest rates. So I thought that was really interesting that the demand is there. They just aren’t getting to closing. So she thinks if those interest rates do come down, then there still are going to be a lot of owners wanting to purchase their vacation rental, short-term rental.

[00:10:52] Sarah: Another very interesting moment of this panel was how the owners who own a property in a highly regulated area are actually winning right now. Because supply has been regulated and there isn’t this–

[00:11:09] Annette: Practical.

[00:11:10] Sarah: Correct. Versus these areas where there is no regulation or regulation is incredibly light and the supply is just, man, it’s crushing that demand, and these operators are having a really hard time making their numbers work. So for those of you out there who are worried about an area being highly regulated, think of it in that way. If you can get the license, if you can–

[00:11:31] Annette: It’s worth it.

[00:11:31] Sarah: Right. It is worth it to be in an area where– but then again, it’s capitalism where like, hey, as property owners, you have your right to do what you’d like with your property and the cream will rise to the top. And that was another discussion on this panel, was how important it is to have it well decorated without overdoing it.

[00:11:52] Annette: Yeah. That is something that we’ve actually heard already in the first four hours here of people have over improved, or they are buying a luxury property in an area that doesn’t have the demand for that. And so don’t be mistaken with cream of the crop, meaning spend the most.

[00:12:13] Sarah: No.

[00:12:14] Annette: I love that Avery said this too. You have really got to understand who is coming to your community, who is coming to your town, and what are they looking for. And you can’t just go off the numbers. She gave a really good analogy that a lot of people that are just looking at the numbers, not thinking about who their guest is going to be, like, let’s say in the Smoky Mountains, well, five-bedrooms perform the best.

[00:12:33] I’m going to buy a five bedroom, but they buy a five-bedroom brick home. No one’s coming to the Smokies that wants to stay in a five-bedroom ranch brick home. They want to stay in the log cabin that’s designed like that. And so I thought that was genius where she was like, you can look at the numbers all day long, but you still have to understand who was staying and what they are desiring in that stay.

[00:12:55] And so that’s where, again, cream of the crop, just buying the most expensive place, putting the most expensive furniture, that is not– cream of the crop does not mean spend the most. 

[00:13:06] Sarah: Cream of the crop is knowing who your ideal guest is, what they want.

[00:13:11] Annette: Serving them the best.

[00:13:12] Sarah: Purchasing that property with conservative numbers, and not over leveraging yourself, and then having that hospitality experience designed to that ideal guest. I’m not saying that you to have these luxury robes because they don’t not coming to the Smoky Mountains for that kind of experience. They want that rustic. They want that cabin feel. And so she was saying how now there’s too many luxury properties in the Smoky Mountains, and it’s really hard for–

[00:13:36] Annette: Well, it’s not that they don’t want that deal. It’s that they don’t have the budget for it. That traveler coming–

[00:13:41] Sarah: Isn’t spending that money.

[00:13:42] Annette: Right. That traveler is, she said it, going to Aspen. So that’s the other thing to remember too, is what are the economics of your customer? So it’s not that they might not want to. It’s that they might not be able to. It’s not in their budget for them to spend on that.

[00:13:58] You might have a few travelers, but then once they’ve booked their stay, they’ve booked their stay. They’re like, there’s not more there. The last thing about this particular session that we did is just how master leasing continues to not be successful.

[00:14:14] Sarah: AKA arbitrage.

[00:14:16] Annette: Arbitrage. I forget what gentlemen said it, but it’s like, just over and over again for like the last hundred years, it has never proved to be a long-term path to winning. And so these gentlemen are all doing owner operator co-hosting or property management, where they are in partnership. 

[00:14:35] Sarah: Or revenue share.

[00:14:36] Annette: Yeah, with the owner. So, again, we’ll just say word to the wise. If that’s the path that you want to take, you definitely need to make sure that you’re diversified and you don’t have all your eggs in that one basket because no one on stage was participating in that at all.

[00:14:51] And I can share, I actually talked to a couple of people last night that during COVID, they had arbitrage relationships that they had to bow out of because they couldn’t continue on. If you are out there and you listen and you’ve been super successful with this, let us know. But we’re trying to find a company that has really crushed it. 

[00:15:10] Actually, we’re sitting next to one. Maybe we’ll ask them to come on and see what their success metrics are. But we’re going to keep attending some of the sessions and chatting with our other short-term rental friends and colleagues here, and we will report back.

[00:15:27] Sarah: All right. So we’re in the vendor hall here at IMN, and we just pulled aside Denise Poteat. I met her last night at a networking event because we were connected by a fellow friend. And you’ve got to meet Denise. She is the ultimate glamping host. And actually on her card, it says chief glamping officer.

[00:15:44] Annette and I are getting in the glamping world. We don’t know what we’re doing yet. But Denise, he pulled you aside. Can you tell us the name of your company, where you’re from, and then number one tip for hosts out there to remain special and unique?

[00:15:57] Denise: Okay, well thank you for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. My name is Denise Poteat. I like to call myself the CGO, my Chief Glamping Officer of Safari for the Soul Glamping in Marble Falls, Texas.

[00:16:11] Annette: Safari for the Soul. And we are in Austin, so how far is your property from Austin?

[00:16:16] Denise: We are an hour and, I would say, 10 minutes from downtown Austin.

[00:16:19] Annette: Oh, perfect.

[00:16:21] Denise: So in the hill country and a lot of people don’t know where Marble Falls is, it is between Johnson City and say Fredericksburg, an hour from both. Really cute quaint town.

[00:16:31] Annette: And how long have you been operating that? How long have you been in the glamping biz?

[00:16:34] Denise: We have been in that particular location three and a half years, but in glamping, five.

[00:16:38] Annette: Before we get into your secret sauce, what are your guests staying in? Tell us about your structures in your glamping site.

[00:16:46] Denise: Yeah. We actually started with luxury glamping tents. They’re frontier style, freestyle hanging tents on cedar logs, so very primal. And it is on six acres off the Colorado River in a semi remote spot about 10 miles from Marble Falls.

[00:17:03] Annette: Okay. And how many–

[00:17:05] Denise: We currently have three functioning tents, a fourth one that will be up within a month, and plans to grow seven to 10 by next year.

[00:17:12] Annette: Love it. And then my last question before we get into the secret sauce, these tents, do they have plumbing?

[00:17:17] Denise: Of course, they do

[00:17:18] Annette: They do. Okay.

[00:17:20] Denise: Yeah. Real septic, real toilets.

[00:17:21] Annette: All right. I always want to know–

[00:17:23] Denise: Real AC.

[00:17:24] Annette: I always want to know about– and it is year-round, your guest and stay.

[00:17:28] Denise: We are year-round.

[00:17:29] Annette: Year-round. Wonderful. Well, we want to know what is the draw? What is your secret sauce? Why are people coming into Safari for the Soul?

[00:17:39] Denise: Good question. Now you’re making me think. Well, first of all, one of the key things is we’re adults only and we cater to couples. And we’re pet-friendly. So we really break it down, and I don’t advertise this, so you’re only getting it on this show. You’re not going to see it on my marketing material.

[00:17:54] You’re not going to see it on our website, but you know the website says come, relax, recharge, reconnect with your best friend, your loved one, whoever you want to bring. Just bring an adult. However, we really cater to couples. So before we make any decision we know that we’re in the making babies and memories business

[00:18:15] So if you run an adult retreat for couples, you’re in the make money and babies business. And so whatever you buy, make sure that it makes them want to do one of the following. For example, when we choose a bed– I don’t even know if I should say this.

[00:18:32] Annette: Say it. We can always delete it out.

[00:18:34] Denise: So this is my husband’s thinking, not mine.

[00:18:37] Sarah: Of course.

[00:18:38] Denise: So we have two tents to face the water. One’s affectionately called the King Kong bed, and the other one is the Kama Sutra. But really, it’s just an Indonesian eclectic hand carved bed for the woman, and the primal bed is a four-poster bed for the man. So which one makes a woman want to make memories versus the man?

[00:18:59] So women shop the most. So what I’m really basically saying is that your bed in a couple’s retreat is probably your biggest asset once they actually get there. And depending on who you think is doing the buying, which in our case, we think women do the most booking–

[00:19:17] Sarah: Absolutely.

[00:19:18] Denise: Then we are catering to what is that woman going to see herself in when she walks in that structure? Domes are also good glamping structures as tents are good structures, but what I see a lot of people doing is not really thinking about their bed very well. Is it romantic? I don’t want to go to a vanilla hotel and have a small hotel backdrop bed with boring linens and whatever. So one of the simplest things is choose an amazing bed. Choose an amazing headboard.

[00:19:54] Sarah: And you know what I love, a big takeaway from that too, which is really smart, is what you say to the guests via your marketing can sometimes not be all inclusive what you and your husband think about when you’re purchasing things. You know your ideal customer, and you know that when you go to a store to buy something, it’s like the making memories or making babies. That’s what you ask yourself. You don’t need to put that on your website for it to make sense.

[00:20:16] Denise: No.

[00:20:17] Sarah: But it drives you, and it keeps you also like really specific in creating that exact moment for your guests.

[00:20:24] Denise: Yeah. And the luxury glamping market is cool. It is all about the outdoors. There’s two things, is what really feels romantic? And that goes from your colors to your sense when you walk into the tent. I tend to do one simple thing, which I don’t know if everybody does this or not, but I have music coming in playing when you come in on my little Alexa.

[00:20:49] And depending on who you are and what kind of guests interaction I’ve had with you, I know if you like country or I know if you– and we’re in Texas. We’re in the hill country. So probably there’s a 90% chance someone’s going to like the country music. So I’ll either play country music on my Jackie Brown radio in this old school Motown ’80s romance, whatever. So when they come in, there’s music playing. I have some type of, not incense. What do you call it?

[00:21:15] Sarah: Essential oils?

[00:21:16] Denise: Yeah, an essential oils room freshener. Not too strong. Eucalyptus is a good thing. Something universal, but not too strong. And at least have the music playing. And one of the other secret, super easy thing, super easy is we as women love lights. Let’s put a little laser light projector in there. So at night time when you’re getting your groove on or when you’re just laying there relaxing and you see those stars and the orbits thing going on the top of the tent, And it doesn’t matter if you’re a dome or a tent or a cabin, that is like a $25 to $30 investment.

[00:21:57] Annette: You buy this on Amazon?

[00:21:58] Denise: Yes.

[00:21:50] Annette: Okay, we’re going to get the lake.

[00:21:59] Denise: Oh yeah. Laser projectors. Yeah. Music. That. You just turn it into a club. It’s nice.

[00:22:08] Annette: What is your average daily rate on these romantic stays?

[00:22:10] Denise: Yeah. We have a firm at least $300 a night. And then when we have events and so forth, like when the eclipse was here, that was a $750 per night.

[00:22:23] Both Annette & Sarah: Nice.

[00:22:24] Denise: But I say, 300 to 500 per night is pretty common in the Hill Country. If you head to Fredericksburg and go to some undisclosed areas, I will not say you might pay 700 to 900.

[00:22:35] Annette: Wow. All right. And then as we wrap this up, how often are these guests, your romantic stays, are they coming back again to stay with you? Are they making it an anniversary trip, or is it a yearly rendezvous? Have you started to see a lot of repeat guests?

[00:22:54] Denise: You know what? I’m so excited because I actually think that’s where the secret sauce is, having them come back. They come for their birthdays, many moons, honeymoons, whatever moon you want to say. And that’s what they’re coming for.

[00:23:07] And so for them, the special memory is about where they came for that event. And as long as you provide an amazing experience that felt good– and let’s be honest. Nature trumps anything else. So it’s not really what I do. I just provide the nice space with all the little cool features.

[00:23:24] Throw on an outside shower, make it romantic. And they celebrate their special days, so they want to come back to celebrate that special day as long as I remind them of that moment. So yes, they are coming back, and it is amazing that we can get this inexpensive really Airbnb, Vrbo referral, then you convert them to your platform, and then they come back, you remember their name, what they like to drink, what their dog’s name is, and tell them to come back.

[00:23:56] Sarah: Denise, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your secrets with us. You’re going to help so many hosts level up their business.

[00:23:58] Denise: Thank you. Thank you very much.

[00:24:00] Sarah: All right, continuing on our journey of pulling hosts aside and getting their secret sauce. Although, Michael, we may have to drag it out of him. He doesn’t–

[00:24:07] Annette: He doesn’t want to share because he’s–

[00:24:08] Sarah: He might not want to share, but we can do this. So Michael Chang from Trustbnb. Michael, will you share a little about who you are and what your hosting business looks like?

[00:24:15] Michael: Sure. First off, thanks for inviting me today to record with you guys. I’m a big fan of your podcast. I’m Michael Chang. I live in New York City. My wife and I started our business in December 2016. We have 35 properties right now. 28 of them we lease and then re rent them on Airbnb. This is called lease arbitrage. And then we’ve taken those profits to buy seven short-term rentals in Tennessee and New York.

[00:24:49] Annette: Love that. Can you share really quick that purchasing of the seven from the arbitrage 28. What was the timeframe of taking profits from the business? So we’re going 2016. When did you take your first profit share, if you will, to purchase your first Smoky mountain property?

[00:25:08] Michael: The first property we closed September of 2020. So it was about three years before we bought, and it was less a capital constraint versus, I think, one, if we were good at this, and two, if it was something that we felt there was real runway with. So after a year, year and a half, we checked a box that I think we could do this and think we’re good at it. And then with some of the tax law changes that happened in ’17, it made a lot of sense to start buying because it was just a much more tax efficient way to compound capital.

[00:25:49] Annette: How did you know after your year, year and a half, you were “good at this?”

[00:25:55] Michael: Our profit and loss statement and our reviews.

[00:25:59] Annette: And it’s you and your wonderful wife, Elizabeth. At that point in time when you started, were you both working full-time jobs and then both managing like the properties and the guests and all the things together?

[00:26:12] Michael: Yes. Our first unit launched December 27, 2016. I remember that because we were both working full-time, and worked through Christmas because we wanted to capture the years, and we were like okay, let’s hustle and get this done. 

[00:26:32] And March, at the one unit, we were like, okay, there’s something here because this works really well. And by July she quit her job to focus it full-time because it doesn’t make sense. It was like, she was working in fashion and four or five arbitrage units could have replaced her income, and we could do that in months.

[00:26:48] So it just made a lot more sense. And then I joined her a few years later, after I quit my job too, because we felt that if we both did this together, we could scale something that we could eventually pass on to our kids.

[00:27:00] Annette: Let’s talk about scaling because Sarah and I know you just closed on a place.

[00:27:04] Michael: Yeah. So we just bought our newest property in the Catskills. We closed last Monday, so seven days ago.

[00:27:13] Sarah: Congrats. Tell us the details. What do the numbers look like? Do the [Inaudible] crush it, but you don’t care? How long until you cash it? Give us the deets.

[00:27:21] Michael: It’s a small market, so I’m a little circumspect in what I’m going to say. It is a five-bedroom property in a great location. It has enough backyard space for us to fully amortize it, which I think is a very important part of short-term rentals now.

[00:27:37] I think that is a key part in having successful short-term rentals because we’re in the hospitality business, and if you want to be in the top 20% of listings of revenue profitability, then you have to cater to that top decile, top quartile audience. And those people really care about when they first walk in, how does the property present when they open the door.

[00:28:05] Does it smell nice? Do you have something there that captures your attention? Is there some type of personalization that happens? So all those things really matter to that, top quartile, top decile type audience. Whereas, if you have a more middle of the road type product, where it’s, we’re at a Marriott here, it does matter, but different between a Marriott and a Hilton, I don’t think anyone would really lose too much sleep if they stayed at a Marriott or a–

[00:28:33] Sarah: Right.

[00:28:34] Annette: When you and your wife were looking for your next property, was it Catskills specific, or were you just running the numbers and the Catskills is where it fell for you?

[00:28:42] Michael: We looked for over 20 months. The last property we bought was August of 2022. I have two young kids so the year is–

[00:28:53] Sarah: Time is flying.

[00:28:55] Michael: They’re all going to blend together. So we spent a lot of time looking for the right market. And I think for us it’s slightly different from maybe a newer investor. Now that we had done this for a few years, we were looking for a market, a geography that we could really grow and scale a team. The hardest part about managing remotely and delivering consistent product is building on the ground team.

[00:29:20] And it’s very hard to do, and it’s very time intensive and labor intensive. And we didn’t want to just do one and have to recreate the wheel again and again. And it’s a lot of management overhead too. So we wanted to find a place where we saw a real pathway to getting multiple units there to amortize the upfront work that we’re going to do here.

[00:29:42] Annette: So your next place is hopefully going to be in the Catskills too? You’re going to focus there?

[00:29:46] Michael: That’s definitely the plan. And the unifying vision that we have for us and our team and everyone we work with is, this is going to be the best short-term rental in this market.

[00:29:57] Annette: Ooh.

[00:28:58] Sarah: I like it. 

[00:29:59] Annette: The best.

[00:29:59] Michael: That is the goal. Just like a company or any organization team, you need a unifying statement. It can be like, oh, we’re going to make the most money here, and that’s less powerful. We’re going to create the best product here. And look, the chips will fall where they may. I don’t have a crystal ball. If the world falls out tomorrow and it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. But we’re going to give it our best shot. We’ve done the work, and life is you got to take a swing. So we’re going to take our swing.

[00:30:28] Sarah: Final question for you. We’re at the IMN Short-Term Rental Forum here in Austin. What so far has been your biggest takeaway from the content?

[00:30:35] Michael: That’s a great question. May be less on the content, but just on the people. This is my third version of IMN Short-Term Rentals. I was here last year in Austin. I went to Miami in here this year. I think the quality and the diversity of people are a lot different in this version that I’ve attended. It’s a little more corporate. You guys are here. So I like to see how it’s continuing to evolve and grow. I guess in our next conversation I’ll tell you the takeaways that I’ve gotten.

[00:31:10] Sarah: Well, thank you so much for your time, and thank you for being such a great host. We appreciate you.

[00:31:14] Michael: Thank you.

[00:31:14] Annette: You better be the best. You got to be the best in the Catskills. They’re coming for you. Any listener in the Catskills, Michael’s coming for you.

[00:31:20] Michael: We’ll see you. [Inaudible]

[00:31:24] Sarah: Thank you. All right, we’ve just commandeered John from Ohana Stay. I’ve been there. I should know how to say this better. First of all, you’re living everyone’s dream, hosting Hawaiian properties. Just know that.

[00:31:41] John: Okay. Would you like to?

[00:31:43] Sarah: I would love to visit them. I would love to own them. My husband would like to live there. It’s pretty far. But more about you and your business. So tell us a little about you and your business. How do you operate it? How many properties you have? Give us the quick 411.

[00:31:56] John: Yes. So my name is John An. I have a small property management company in Honolulu, Hawaii, small, less than 10. But we own some and then we manage a couple. The ethos behind management is obviously, first and foremost, asset protection, whether it’s mine or somebody else’s, so we take that very seriously. 

[00:32:20] In order to make sure that everything is running smoothly, one of the things that I believe in is the same problem should not happen more than two or three times. So when the first time something happens, it’s like, try to figure out what happened. The second time we should find a pattern of like, what was the trigger for the problem? And then we should start building a systematic approach to either eliminate or at least reduce the impact of that problem.

[00:32:50] And that’s not only for just that one problem, but if you’re doing this on a constant basis, it’s continual improvement, and you’re not searching for problems to solve. The problems are presenting to you to be solved as you’re going by your day to day. And that’s kind of how you make your operations better and better to suit your needs, not what somebody else tells you you need to do.

[00:33:17] Annette: Can you give us an example of a current problem that you’ve had to solve for that happened that reared it’s ugly head more than once, twice, third time, and then you triaged it and solved for it?

[00:33:26] John: I’ll give you an older example.

[00:33:28] Annette: Okay, just give us a good example.

[00:33:30] John: This is something that everyone has gone into, but some of our properties have lock boxes. And so initially we had one lock box and our local staff, and it would not happen often, but when it happened, it was like 2:00 AM in the morning. So then the first thing was to get a second lock box so that no one had to actually physically go. It’s a very dumb example, but I would say, initially, we just kept on running into the same wall. We were like, oh my God, I can’t believe it’s happening again. And then it’s like, duh, just pay for another lockbox.

[00:34:10] Sarah: Wait, was the lockbox getting stuck? Like what was happening to these lockboxes?

[00:34:13] John: The most problematic thing was the previous guest was not leaving it in at that time. So then guests would show up and it’s not there. So again, it’s a very dumb example, but on the technology side, it could be something similar like that too. I’ll shut up there.

[00:34:35] Annette: You also are, let’s say, a tech fixer. You’re a revenue fixer and a tech fixer for hosts. And I think one of the secrets is there are so many pieces of tech that hosts can bring on board, and we’ll just call it the overwhelm of the tech stack. With your 10 properties that you’re in, in Honolulu, what is a piece of tech that you could not even think to live without at this point in time?

[00:35:04] John: I’ll one short-term rental tech and one non short-term rental tech.

[00:35:09] Annette: Ooh, yes. Okay. I like this too.

[00:35:12] John: So obviously, I actually really like my PMS, and it’s Hospitable. It really does take a lot of the load off, and I don’t need to build a lot of additional things that I need for my business on it. So I’ll just put that out there. That’s very simplistic. On the non short-term rental side, I use a software called Airtable.

[00:35:37] Annette: Okay.

[00:35:39] John: That is the magic that pulls all the various pieces that I need to do, whether it’s internal team communication, whether it’s guest facing, whether it’s tracking data, or even building my website. That is the glue that brings it all together.

[00:35:58] Sarah: Airtable is a spreadsheet. What makes it so magical for you?

[00:36:02] John: Airtable is not just a spreadsheet. You wanted that. It is a spreadsheet that’s beyond on steroids. So you can basically connect to almost any other online service app, and so you can use low code, no code methods to start bringing everything together. And so while on the surface, it looks like a spreadsheet and a database. It’s what actually lets you tape all the things together.

[00:36:33] Sarah: Give our host example, really high level, quick, how do you use Airtable in your hosting business for someone with 10 or less properties?

[00:36:40] John: So even for our VAs. Previously, we have IOT smart things, and they’d have to be logged into there to get the alert for smart things, and they’d have to be logged into Minutes to get the alert for a minute right. And so now what we do is all that gets funneled through Airtable and then that sends a message into Discord which, rather than Slack, we use Discord. So now they are just on Discord, and then they’re getting the notification there.

[00:37:17] Annette: They only need to be logged into one thing, which is Airtable.

[00:37:21] John: More or less.

[00:37:23] Annette: They’re getting the alert there. They might have to go back into the individual piece of software, but they stay steady.

[00:37:29] Sarah: That’s a good tip.

[00:37:30] John: And the reason why I had to do that was I was getting so angry at them for missing notifications that I was seeing. And then I would have to notify them. And I’m like, if I notice it, you should notice it. But rather than continuing to be angry at them, it’s like, all right, let’s build a system around this. And that’s what we did.

[00:37:51] Annette: Well, you just brought it all full circle. If there’s something that’s happening at the property more than a few times, you’re like, well, we need to look at this and solve for it. And then you did that with your team too. You’re getting frustrated more than a few times, so how can I solve for it? Last question, because you do help a lot of different properties with their revenue management. What is your outlook for the rest of 2024 and 2025?

[00:38:19] John: I know the markets are down from the golden years, 2021, 2022. With that said, with the broad range of property managers that we partner with in multiple markets, what we are seeing is that the folks who are focusing on revenue performance, on operations, most of them are, at least with us, are either equivalent to or above in their revenue performance than 2021, 2022.

[00:38:50] Sarah: So there’s hope.

[00:38:51] John: There’s a lot of hope. I’m so gung ho about the rest of 2024 and 2025. I know it sounds odd.

[00:38:58] Sarah: I had goosefoams. That’s usually Annette’s saying.

[00:39:01] John: No, bring it. That’s good. 

[00:39:02] John: But I’m seeing it.

[00:39:02] Sarah: That’s exciting.

[00:39:03] John: Obviously, it’s great for me and my business, but I’m excited because we’re helping so many operators who thought, okay, now we’re in a down year, and they’re actually now like, oh my God, I’m having the best year ever.

[00:39:18] Sarah: I know you said the last question, but we’ll make this quick. These are supposed to be little quips. But I love this. We were networking with you last night at the opening night party and you made a nice analogy between software and some of us hosts thinking like, well, if I got the software, it should be doing the work for me. Why do I have to go in there and massage the software? Tell us your approach on that, how you explain that to people who just don’t understand, like, yes, you have to go into your software and be involved.

[00:39:43] John: Okay. So I have two analogies for that.

[00:39:45] Sarah: They’re so good, everyone. 

[00:39:47] John: So the first one that I like to use is you can own a formula one race car, and it’s a beautiful piece of technology, but if you’re not a Formula 1 race car driver, you can make it go forward, you can turn, but you’re not going to win the Grand Prix. You’re just not.

[00:40:03] So just having the technology, just having the Formula 1 race car does not mean you’re going to win the race. The more simplistic way of saying this is you can’t just go and buy a hammer and say, oh, the hammer doesn’t work. You have to know how to use the hammer. So those are the two analogies that I use.

[00:40:20] Sarah: It allows all of us hosts to know like, yes, you have the technology, but you do have to spend some time learning how to use it. And if it’s not you, it’s okay to get someone to help you optimize the technology. Well, John, thank you so much for your time and for hanging out with us at IMN.

[00:40:37] John: Thanks a lot. I love having conversations with you guys.

[00:40:41] Annette: It’s not out last.

[00:40:42] Sarah: All right, so it’s in a day of day one of the IMN Short-Term Rental forum here in Austin, Texas, and Annette and I divided and conquered. Annette, what’d you go to? How was it?

[00:40:53] Annette: The other session I attended one who’s still acquiring properties and how are they getting financed?

[00:41:01] Sarah: So are they? Are people still acquiring properties?

[00:41:03] Annette: They are still acquiring. Maybe not as quickly because the rates are higher, and the rates make things more obtainable for folks. Combine inflation and the rates and an election year, I think it is a changed financing.

[00:41:23] But the biggest thing, the takeaway, because there were multiple people giving their views, a lot of people from capital investment firms, this was my favorite part about it. A gentleman said that there are three things, fear, greed, and impatience that will crush any investor. 

[00:41:41] That’s, again, fear, greed, and impatience. And I think being patient and waiting for the right property is what people really need to– and maybe it’s not just waiting for the property. Maybe it’s waiting for your financials to get where they need to be. Because we experienced this, Sarah. 

[00:41:59] If a bank doesn’t want to loan to you, there’s probably a reason why. You can push things, you can stretch things, but like really sometimes maybe you need to slow down and take a look at it because it’s all about risk and understanding that risk. But I just love that, fear, greed, impatience, being patient and making sure that you’re waiting on the right property too because you’re probably not going to cash flow immediately.

[00:42:24] Sarah: That was my question for you. Let’s dig into the greed component. How does that feed into short-term rental investors?

[00:42:31] Annette: Just wanting to make too much money too fast and skimping on things that cannot be or should not be skimped on. It’s like it’s either coming out of the guest stay or my pocket. And that was not the way to go with it.

[00:42:44] Sarah: Anything else from that panel?

[00:42:46] Annette: Yeah. this was a big one, actually, is that, a, there is still not a short-term rental specific lender. That’s all they do, and that’s all they understand. And that short-term rentals are still considered single-family homes. They’re single-family residence. So if you try to get it appraised as an income producing property, it’s probably not going to appraise as a cash flowing property. So there were some debate of should you have your single-family residence be a commercial property? And what’s–

[00:43:17] Sarah: Can you even do that with [Inaudible]?

[00:43:18] Annette: No. If you have a multifamily, you potentially could, but that was the thing, is always understanding that even if you have an incredibly cash flowing, short-term rental, the bank is still going to be financing it as a single-family residence. So if you have somebody that can pay all cash and doesn’t need that appraisal, but a lot of times they’re still going to want to have it appraised to have it make sense for their backup plan.

[00:43:41] So until we get to that place, we’re going to have to mature at the– the short-term rental industry is going to have to mature more, so where people actually see it as its own asset class that can be evaluated.

[00:43:55] Sarah: But let’s discuss what people could do right now. So right now I have, and I’ve talked to you a lot about my client. I’ve got this client who is looking for a short-term rental in downtown Columbus, and every time we find a property that is furnished and it’s an operating short-term rental, the seller thinks they have this super valuable thing because it’s furnished and ready to go.

[00:44:15] But like you’re saying, it’s not appraising, and they don’t have a value on the furniture separately. They’re just like, well, it’s just all part of the sale of the home. But it’s like, you have to give that piece value. And I think you also have to give value to your book of business because you cannot technically transfer an Airbnb account. What if you’re multi channeling, which I hope you are. Having an email list or a way to contact the guests who come that probably, that’s the value is. If you don’t have that–

[00:44:42] Annette: The other thing that they kept iterating is that so many hosts do not have their T12, their trailing 12. They don’t have their books in order. They don’t have all of their history, all of their revenue, all of their expenses. And he is like, that is a challenge right now and will continue to be a challenge for the industry to be taken more seriously, is they’ve always got to have their books in order, have their trailing 12 months, exactly what they’ve done, so the lenders can look at that year over year. And he’s finding that they just don’t have those books in order.

[00:45:14] Sarah: All right, everyone. So get your books in order. I was on the property management track, and I attended a panel using prop tech, which means, property technology to reduce operating and maintenance costs and mitigate risks. And one of the coolest things I think they were talking about is you can have as much tech as you want, but the end of the day, maintenance and cleaning and problem solving, you still very much need a human being to intervene.

[00:45:41] And just how a lot of people who are leaning on technology to help them with their operations, some of this technology is so new and it’s not lasting. They’re going under. These companies are either going under or they’re getting consumed by another technology company. And it’s really hard to master a tech stack and have it actually help you and not just like make it more aggravating to run your property when you can’t keep up.

[00:46:08] Annette: One of those questions that I’ve asked though, because so many people are talking about their tech stack here, is that it is not out of the question to have a tech stack with 10 to 15 to 20 different pieces of tech that you’re using. Because if you think about even using Gmail, or Vox, or Zappy. Those are all pieces of tech even if it’s “free.” Your tech stack is still probably going to be a little bit more cumbersome than you would like. You’re not going to have a one-size-fits-all solution.

[00:46:37] Sarah: I do want to give a shout out to this one particular company though that we’ve been impressed by this entire event. It’s this company out of Pittsburgh, and they’re called HostWise. They manage over 100 properties, and they boast a 4.93 rating.

[00:46:52] Annette: Boom. That’s awesome.

[00:46:53] Sarah: And it’s funny because he said that the co-founder, Chad Wise, came to, I think, an IMN event a couple of years ago or some event a few years ago and everyone kept telling them, well, once you scale though, you’re going to have to let go of that high rating. And he was like, that was his like, don’t tell me what I can and cannot do. And so that drove him.

[00:47:12] And so he talks about using technology to help you with maintenance. And the most important thing for their company is actually not the guest or the property owner that they managed for. It is their neighborhood. If you start with your community and you start with your neighborhood and really protecting that, it all trickles down into great reviews for your business. So I thought that was a really interesting angle.

[00:47:33] Annette: All right. Stay tuned for day two.

[00:47:35] Sarah: All right. It’s day two here at IMN Short-Term rental forum. And Annette and I made sure we showed up on time, bright and early, at 9:00 AM, to these really cool, small, they call them round table meetings. And so in these small group rooms, they have three people who lead it. And then everyone else can join in the conversation and do deeper work, deeper conversation. So instead of sitting in a conference room–

[00:47:59] Both Annette & Sarah: Being talked at.

[00:47:59] Sarah: Which is fine in a lot of cases, you get to be a part of the conversation. And so the title of this one is standardizing STR operations. So you know Annette and I were pumped to be there, but Annette, what conversations and questions and things went down?

[00:48:16] Annette: We did all go around the circle and introduce ourselves, so there could be someone with one property just getting started to 10 properties to 60, 180, and we talked about cleaning.

[00:48:32] Sarah: We all had– 

[00:49:33] Annette: The same pain point. And so I think that’s comforting in a way, that even people that have– one gentleman had, I think, $150 million worth of properties, and he’s still talking about cleaning and maintenance. And I think it’s the topic of conversation because it is the most important conversation and it’s the human element that we’re always going to have. 

[00:49:01] What was refreshing about the conversation is instead of just talking about the problem, we were trying to pinpoint two things, and we were pinpointing that starts with hiring. And then the secondary thing though, is incentivizing. Once hire and find and train that right person, it was really interesting to hear how everyone incentivized their team to do a good job and continue to do a good job. 

[00:49:26] The one thing that I loved, and it didn’t get his name, but there was a specific gentleman who said he quarterly does a handwritten note to his cleaner, his individual cleaners, and sends them a physical check. So they get something physical in the mail. 

[00:49:44] They get something physical, whether they take it to the bank or they take a picture of it on phone, but it shows that they took the time to calculate the bonus, write the check, write a note, and he said that he continues to see longevity with his team by doing that type of incentive, and I thought that was lovely.

[00:50:06] Sarah: I like that because a lesson that I’ve learned over the years is not everyone is incentivized by money, surprisingly. I am one of those, yes, I’d like to make money, but for me, I like to hear that I’m doing a good job, and I want to know what is my good job doing that knocks down the dominoes of helping out the team or helping out the business.

[00:50:28] So what that handwritten note does is hopefully it has the details about that cleaner, what accomplishments they had that quarter, and then it also incentivizes them monetarily. Because just giving someone a bonus without any recognition behind like, hey, here are the details I got you here– if you’re not seeing success with bonuses or maybe you’re just doing at the end of the year, it might be because your person needs words of affirmation. They need to know exactly how they’re impacting and that you are paying attention.

[00:50:58] Annette: The other thing that I loved was there was a gentleman who also– because if you are inspecting all of your properties, it can become unsustainable depending on how far your inspectors have to go, depending on the schedule of the day. And this particular person had 100 properties, so it was the first 10 cleans, every single clean got inspected. 

[00:51:20] And then they started to do more of a toggling after that because of just the sheer bandwidth of his team. And so I thought it was like, but look, these first 10 are going to be– and you have to get five stars from the guest also. It’s not just like, hey, the first 10 and then we’re going to let you go.

[00:51:37] But he has standards in place that way to then maybe, I don’t want to say release, but maybe less than the amount of inspect– or put priority elsewhere if there are other things going on in the day of like, that’s one of our stand-up cleaners. Maybe we have someone go over here. There’s another issue going on. Inspection needs to take place over here first. So I thought that was an interesting way to start to give autonomy a little bit more to his cleaners.

[00:51:59] Sarah: I do want to point out that you and I were getting, at least I was a little frustrated at some of the people at the table were kept talking about tech and how tech was going to somehow solve the issue. But when we all kept talking down what the core of the issue was, it came down to, hey, is the right person in the right seat?

[00:52:18] And did you provide training? And not just providing training up front at the onboarding, but then continuous coming back as a team and communicating in some way, shape or form. Maybe it is coming back. And if your cleaner is a 1099, they’re not truly an employee, that does not mean you cannot communicate with them about the product that they are delivering in exchange for the money you’re paying.

[00:52:40] And I think it’s good so they know, like, no, we just communicate on some cadence, whether it’s weekly, monthly, quarterly, whatever your business can withstand so you guys are coming– Annette and I, in our business, we meet with our vendors who are 1099s at least monthly to discuss how this month went. Did I provide you with the tools that you need? Are you providing us with a service that we’re expecting? And not just letting it go on and on and on without some coming together.

[00:53:07] Annette: But I think if you are going to do that coming together with your team, incentivizing them or paying for that hour or understanding if it’s drive time or time off of their schedule that they can’t just meet with you and do this extra training for not being “on the clock.” There has to be incentive there for them. 

[00:53:25] But we’re getting ready to go to a cool session next, which I’m excited to chat about, but something interesting just about this conference in general, it’s a day and a half. So just to let people know this, that was a full day Monday, and it’s a half a day on Tuesday. Never been to a conference that ended at noon.

[00:53:42] Sarah: What time did TFVCon end last year? 3 o’clock? 4 o’clock? 5? Did we go all the end of the day?

[00:53:46] Annette: We did, but some people had to leave early.

[00:53:48] Sarah: Okay, this is a short time. So the next one we’re going to, and we’ll hop back on here, is all about, experiential short-term rentals, so nature retreats, landscape hotels. Annette and I are starting our development projects with our 135 acres in Hocking Hills area of Ohio, so we are sponges for learning, and we’ll report back unceremonious. Okay. All right, we just attended our last session.

[00:54:11] Annette: We are the last people in the vendor hall. Well, no, there’s four people sadly packing up their booths. These people got the heck out of here.

[00:54:19] Sarah: But we are here to the end because we are reporting back all the cool things that we learned from everyone else who’s doing awesome stuff in industry. We just attended a round table, again, so a smaller group session, all about experiential hospitality. So think more rural set in nature, experiential stays. I guess it doesn’t necessarily have to be glamping, but just something where you enter into the front gates and you are transported into a new experience. And it was with Isaac French.

[00:54:50] Annette: From Live Oak Lake. And then Ben Wolff. He has Onera. O-N-E-R-A.

[00:54:57] Sarah: So we’ll link to those in the show notes so you guys can go check them out, but they both have really cool success stories.

[00:55:02] Annette: Both in Texas, by the way. Just a side note.

[00:55:05] Sarah: My most interesting takeaway for me that blew my mind was when Isaac said that landscaping appreciates and real estate depreciates.

[00:55:17] Annette: Which was wild.

[00:55:18] Sarah: Which was like mindset shift for me and our whole team, Annette, with our project of we’re very obviously concerned with the unit itself and what it looks like inside. But it’s like, gosh, we need to make sure that we are budgeting appropriately for the landscape because it is all about getting away from the city, coming in and connecting with nature, and no longer can you just like, at least with what we’re trying to do, come to the middle of the woods and let just nature do its own thing. People are going to expect more from us than that.

[00:55:53] Annette: Do you ever have–

[00:55:53] Sarah: Are you overwhelmed?

[00:55:54] Annette: No, that session was a high high and a low low. You feel excited and defeated at the same.

[00:56:00] Sarah: 1,000 million%.

[00:56:01] Annette: So the experiences, we are so excited because we know the potential, and we actually have the land, but also this defeatedness of like, holy smokes, we have so much work to do.

[00:56:16] Sarah: I’m excited to do the work. I just want to make sure that we’re doing the right work. Because a lot of people are asking the question of like, well– for example, they talked about how container homes are being overdone. And so it’s like it’s being commoditized and how it’s no longer a special experience, unless you’re stacking them on top of each other, putting them over waterfalls, things of that nature. And so what can we do to continue to be creative and unique and not necessarily do what everyone else is doing?

[00:56:45] Annette: Yeah. And there was some really great questions of experiential stays. Like, is there a cliff? Is there demand? Like people go, they go one time, and they’re like, oh, we did that out in the woods experiential stay. We’re not doing that again. So there were some interesting points being brought up by people because these are large projects, huge investment, and really what is the supply and demand. 

[00:57:10] But the super encouraging thing, we asked about group travel. And unique group travel, I think will continue to be something, whether it be corporate, family, friends, get togethers. I do think finding a unique experience for a group of people is something that really isn’t out there past hotels.

[00:57:35] Sarah: Another mind-blowing mindset shift was, I was actually shocked when Onera said that, even though he has different unique places, he didn’t really get a lot of repeat guests. Once they came to an Onera, they didn’t really care if they stayed in this cool place, even though that place down the road was crazy different. 

[00:57:52] But what he did say was, but they like unique stays. So I actually need to link arms with the other unique stay providers in my area so that I can say, hey, you just stayed in an Onera. Go stay at Live Oak Lake next. And having– what do you call a soft product? What do you call it? A soft brand, where it’s like we are different entities, but we are under one trying to get this traveler to be in our little ecosystem. And I love that whole, we’re not competitors, we are actually collaborators in this effort.

[00:58:25] Annette: Right. Because maybe they’re not going to come stay at our other properties, but there’s this style of traveler that–

[00:58:31] Sarah: We’re going to pick it up because the batteries just died.

[00:58:33] Annette: Live action.

[00:58:34] Sarah: Okay. All right. Another cool conversation that popped up when Onera was saying he has such unique structures on his property, they’re very cool, very different, and it still feels like cohesive and in a very cool way. But the question was asked about repeat bookings, like, oh, people come and stay in that, when they want to come back and stay in another one, he’s like, we don’t actually really get that.

[00:58:57] Even though our places are different, once I came to Onera, they don’t– and who knows whether his efforts are truly in getting somebody to come back. But what I did like about that conversation was he said him and Live Oak Lake were in the discussions of talking about how they can do some partnership.

[00:59:11] Annette: Cross collaborate.

[00:59:12] Sarah: Yes, because if that guest is already wanting to come and have a unique stay an hour and a half, two hours outside of a big city in Texas, they’re probably going to want to go to Live Oak Lake as well and have another experiential stay. And so to come together as collaborators in the space and not competitors and sharing that customer information and remarketing to them in that way. And I thought that was a really lovely conversation that we were having about that.

[00:59:36] Annette: And to piggyback off of him saying linking arms marketing wise is he was very honest in that they did not have a marketing budget when they first launched their brand, and he said, big mistake. He would put 10% of his budget into marketing, and that marketing means having influencers stay, paid ad. All of those different things, it’s actually having a budget and continually spending money on marketing.

[01:00:03] Sarah: And the last thing I want to bring up, I don’t know, Annette, if you have anything else about that roundtable, was the importance of documenting your story. So many of you reach out to us and ask us our opinions on whether or not you should, how to document before you open your doors, should you document before you open doors.

[01:00:18] Annette: All of it.

[01:00:19] Sarah: And he said, obviously, they are unique cases where people do document in a really cool storytelling way. And when their doors open, they have a database of people who are clamoring to come and stay because they’ve been a part of your journey and your story leading up to day one of opening your doors. And so to absolutely do that with purpose and with a storytelling mindset around what makes this interesting, this bill out interesting, but I thought that was great hearing it from two gents too.

[01:00:46] Annette: Build in public. Yeah.

[01:00:48] Sarah: Well, Annette, the event is truly over. We are literally the last two strugglers.

[01:00:53] Annette: Two other lovely ladies. They’re packing boxes though. They’re making it work over there.

[01:00:57] Sarah: What did you think of the event, though?

[01:00:59] Annette: It was awesome. It’s like every event. I don’t think I’ve really soaked it all in yet, and I’m super excited because I know that for us it is the days, weeks, months, and even years after attending a live event, connecting with other amazing people in this space, that things come to fruition.

[01:01:20] So I’m really excited to, when we are working with someone, let’s say it’s Isaac, let’s say it’s Ben, they’re coming to our property in Ohio years from now. I was like, oh, remember we came to your round table in Austin. Look at our landscaping. Little things like that, that’s what I just sit in, celebrate. 

[01:01:38] And I don’t need immediate things to happen today from this event because we know that the return on our investment of our time and maybe go into a happy hour and sweating our entire faces off will be worth it once these connections that we’ve made here, we’ll see the way they go.

[01:01:57] Sarah: I can share that I’ve met several hosts here who have not even opened their first property yet coming and learning and just soaking in. They don’t even know what they’re coming to learn. They’re just taking it in and storing it in their brain for when it will matter or will be helpful in their business. 

[01:02:14] So I encourage anyone out there listening to us right now, if you have a full-time job and you’re hosting business, it’s a side hustle for you, the amount of value that you can get by getting out of your atmosphere and coming and experiencing a conference.

[01:02:27] Annette: I think the other huge part is this has been so encouraging that, again, Austin, Texas, hundreds of people, so many companies are here. They’re sending their team members. They have booths set up at that this industry is still at the very infancy. And that is exciting. I felt everyone here knows it’s still in the very beginning stages. And I think we should be very encouraged by that.

[01:02:56] Sarah: And with that, I am Sarah Karakaian.

[01:02:58] Annette: I am Annette Grant. And together we are–

[01:03:00] Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting.

[01:03:01] Sarah: Talk to you next time.